Thread: Best PWO ?

Hey
I know this could become a massive debate but currently I am at around 10-11 %bf
and I have always just had the usual protein shake with water and either bowl of oats/museli around 80grm

now i read some ppl have been just having BCAA recovery X which i also have.
So atm during workouts I mix biocharge and recovery X
but what is the most ideal PWO for a cutting diet to get to 8%bf...
as some ppl say BCAAs while other say carbs while others again say just pro... haha

hope that makes sense!

thanks

just aminos,

but who says you cant lose body fat with a good solid meal with carbs in it after training?

Yeah mate, body fat % def more related to overall intake for the day rather than the pwo window, if anything these are the cals that you can count on going to muscle recovery and replenishment rather than fat stores.. if your smashing it hard enuogh that is ;)

MD

Yep, as the guys said it's about reducing calories and particularly carbs through other times of the day to ensure you have a proper caloric deficit.
Given that carb intake around training time does give significant advantages, I would make sure you reduce all other carb sources before a reduction here.

Going from 10-11% to less than 8% will be very much dependent on genetics too, if you naturally tend to hold a bit of fat and have worked like crazy to get down to 11%, it will be much more difficult than if you are able to cruise at 11% with little effort. Keep in mind your body will always try to bring itself back to it's natural point, so the further you deviate from there (in terms of muscle mass held or fat lost) the harder it gets.

The Recover X you are taking is very effective without carbs too, this is supposed to be a large advantage with free form aminos in that they are easily absorbed and assimilated without the need for carbohydrates.

Originally Posted by Bioflex

Going from 10-11% to less than 8% will be very much dependent on genetics too.

This is very true. I just came back from a 5 day Biosignature course with Charles Poliquin which was very focused on getting people sub 10%. Of the 65 people in the course (pretty much all trainers) one of the common patterns / roadblocks for Australians was poor estrogen detoxification both men and women. In particular high quad/hamstring skin folds. The other was insulin and genetic tolerance for carbs (supra iliac and sub scapula sites).

I find with a lot of my clients until you have maintained sub 10% for some time (at least 12 months) I would avoid carbs PWO. Unless they are genetically gifted! For me personally two licks of a strawberry is too many carbs! I have been using whey, glutamine and glycine PWO and will be trying Biocharge / Recover X soon for many of the reasons already posted.

Belmont, there was a VERY interesting documentary on bodyfat levels, obesity and all that exciting stuff a few weeks ago on SBS.
It was really unique as they did some radical experimentation on both obese people who found it very hard to lose weight as well as natural ectomorphs who always seemed to stay thin.

I recall they had one obese guy living for over 12 months on nothing other than vitamin/mineral supplements and water! His survival was based on his body consuming all his bodyfat, which it did remarkably slowly.
Conversely, they trialled what we'd consider extreme ectomorphs over 12 weeks or so, making all have at least twice their daily intake of food.
The results were amazing. While all should have theoretically gained 10kg+, almost all gained very little.

The conclusion of course is that there was so many factors at play in terms of metabolism, and that it is not simply the in vs out debate people assume. Some functions were measured, but it was assumed that when ecto's over eat their bodies respond by fidgeting more, increasing heat (metabolism) as well as much food simply passing through.

This really confirmed what I had always believed that genetics do play a much larger part than we realise and although it is possible for most to maintain weight, it is significantly harder for some (and a breeze for others).
They based a lot not just on genetics but body fat levels that were generally "set' over a period of time, especially critical periods when young when fat cells stop mutiplying.

What they didn't delve into much (which I would have loved to see) was the effect that training and physical maintenance has on that pre set point. Surely the longer we maintain a certain state deviated from the norm the easier it would get to maintain that, and get back to that point again (think muscle memory as an example). What are your thoughts on this?
Do clients find weight maintenance easier with time, and if so, do you think it is more physical or psychological?

Apologies for the essay, these posts have just jogged my memory on all of this.

A few people had told me about that documentary and it sounded interesting.

From my experience it takes time (around 12 - 18 months) for the body to think that it is not supposed to be fat anymore. I have also heard people refer to it as 'switching off the gene'. I believe as well as physical changes there are many emotional aspects to this transformation which is why I work a lot on the beliefs, thoughts and attitudes side of things with clients. It comes back to teaching / learning a lifestyle rather than a diet.

In regards to genetics we all have our own blueprints that we need to work with. I remember studying fat cells at university and at the time they believed we made the most during the last 2 weeks in the womb (if your mum had a binge) and just before puberty. Now I'm pretty sure because of poor insulin management we just make new ones anytime! You can shrink fat cells but never get rid of them. You have them for life!

Muscle Mass = Longevity

If you look at many of the diabetes education programs the number one thing they recommend for improving blood sugar is resistance training 4x week. I've noticed many of the new health seminars are talking about 'Skinny Fat People'. Basically they may have low body weight but poor muscle mass and high body fat and still all the disease risk factors. For many it is more about what the scales say than what is physiologically going on!

I think I've gone off topic but the foundational information on sizematters I believe has always been 1st class and ahead of the game. Or possibly just stuck to the basics which were right all along :-)

Originally Posted by Bioflex

there was a VERY interesting documentary on bodyfat levels, obesity and all that exciting stuff a few weeks ago on SBS.

I saw that, very interesting. There was 1 ecto who didn't do any resistance exercise and still at the end of the over eating period had a measurable & visable increase in muscle mass with just about no additional fat. His body just decided extra calories, I'll use em to build extra muscle instead of storing it as fat. Now that's what you call a natural.

Here's a link to a review of the program on the BBC's website. it says you can watch it on their iPlayer.

BBC NEWS | UK | Magazine | Why do some people never seem to get fat?

Thanks for the link Tranq. IMO, that fella was likely quite underweight and under nourised to start with.

I think for some people in that situation a rise in calories (with a subsequent rise in protein) will always add a little bit of muscle. It seems to be quite common with boxers, wrestlers etc that have battled in keeping their weight down for a division, the minute they stop, they find a bit of muscle just falls onto there body.

Originally Posted by Bioflex

Thanks for the link Tranq. IMO, that fella was likely quite underweight and under nourised to start with.

I think for some people in that situation a rise in calories (with a subsequent rise in protein) will always add a little bit of muscle. It seems to be quite common with boxers, wrestlers etc that have battled in keeping their weight down for a division, the minute they stop, they find a bit of muscle just falls onto there body.

It's amazing what meeting your protein goal at EVERY meal does to your body composition. I was recently working with a boxer who went from 12% to 9% BF in a month and the main change was meeting his protein goal every day and removing the belief that he needed to carb load before a session. Being athletically gifted and having good genetics also helped him!