Thread: What is the best growth hormone/testosterone/DHEA/DHT available in Aust?

There are more testosterone boosters other thatn tribulus. eg. Tonkkat (Ali red-kat / eurycoma lonifolia jack), Cissus Quadrangularis, Urtica Dioica, protobolan, horny goat weed, fenugreek, magnesium, zinc, Vit B6, testofen (zeus and testoroid), Avena Sativa (like tribulus), diindolylmethane (lowers carcinogenic estrogen) etc.

I am taking: Pre-workout: VP2 protein, glutamine, BCAA's and black powder. Post workout: Cell Mass, glutamine, BCAA's, VP2 protein and glucose. Other times i am taking Cell Mass, whey isolate/concentrate protein powder, Magnesium, Zinc and multi-vitamin and mineral tablets. Magnesium, zinc and vit B6 help increase testosterone.

1). To best increase muscle gains, is it worth while to add a growth hormone/testosterone booster?

Next Generation Mega Mass Forte (potent tribulus) and Novedex XT (blocks estrogen up to 50%) that frees up testosterone). Apparently these 2 products are the best testosterone boosters in Australia. A substitute for these is Next Generation Reductabol (red clover-estrogen blocker with tribulus & wild yam), Testoroid (testofen etc), Zeus (testofen etc), Andro Jack and Protobolan, Sterobol Suspension etc.

2). Does any of the supplements listed above stand out over the others and are effective by itself?

3). How is mega mass and novedex XT compared to products like: zeus, testoroid, andro jack, tribex tabs, sustain alpha and reductabol that are supplements which consist of multiple herbs and perform multiple benefits ie. Testosterone/hormone increase and estrogen blockers? But are probably weaker in strength?

4). Is one of the supplements (growth hormone, DHEA, DHT and testosterone boosters) i’ve listed above, worth purchasing to best increase muscle mass? If not, below are products that are also recommended. They are:

Other products to increase hormone and testosterone levels (but may not be legal in Australia): dostinex; Vandrobol; Navo Vapor; Humanover; Tribestan (tribulus); Axis HT; 17-HD; Protobolan; PowerFull; Arachidonic Acid; ATP; Androstendione; adenosine-5-triphosphate disodium salt; Ecdysterones; Isa Test; Triandrobol High; Orexis & Longevity; Yohimbine Epimedium; Catuaba bark; beta-ecydysterone (eg. Cyanotis vaga- a herb that increases protein synthesis);. Methoxy (simular to beta-ecydysterone which drops estrogen and both are best with tribulus & whey protein); Forza-T; diindolylmethane (also lowers estrogen, the carcinogenic estrogen). The very best are suppose to be: Product X Dermasize; 6-OXO; Alpha Lipoic Acid; EFA's; Animal Stack; Halodrol Liquigels; T-Bomb; DHEA & ultra hot; Viraloid; pro-hormones; steroids; clomid (like novedex xt which increases test & lowers estrogen); Clomid (test increase, estrogen blocker); Armidex (anastrozole – 70% reduction in estrogen & increases test); Nolvadex(estrogen blocker & test booster); hcg; Dovedex (said to have a 600% increase in testosterone); Novedex xt (increases test & lowers estrogen by 50%); Andro Jack; Sustain Alpha; next generation mega mass forte (potent tribulus with 336mg saponins); .

5). Are any of the supplements i’ve listed above legal in Aust and are also very effective? As i’ve heard great results!
It was interesting to discover that protodioscin (steroidal saponins) is the only part of the plant tribulus, that increases testosterone. I've since done some research and found that Beta-Ecydysterone eg. Cyanotis vaga (a herb) OR methoxy (flavone) is best with tribulus and increases protein synthesis (protein synthesis helps the muscle to absorb more protein).

6). With your knowledge and experience, would it be beneficial for a product to include these three extracts (cyanotis vaga, methoxy or Tongkat Ali/Eurycoma longifolia/Longjack) with tribulus, protobolan or any other hormone booster supplement? If so, is there a product that has these extracts together?

7). Or would you recommend taking one of these supplements instead of a test/hormone booster (providing a test/hormone booster isn’t overly effective and not worth the $)?

8). Does novedex XT (apparantly up to 400% free test increase and 50% estrogen blocker) and the new version of next generation mega mass forte (tribulus which has 336mg of saponins/protodioscin per captule, taking two caps a day) prove necessary to combine together? Researched that the little amount of increase in testosterone and estrogen that tribulus may give you, does not warrant an estrogen blocker.

9). If both products aren’t necessary to take together, is 1 product better than the other if I was to take one of them only?

I have done an extensive amount of research in products that help growth hormone and test levels. We all know that creatine, whey protein, glutamine, BCAA's and a pre/post workout supplement are very effective in producing muscle as does rest, diet, magnesium, zinc, vit B6 and training, either directly or inderectly. But it is a different case when finding a product that increases growth hormone and, or testosterone levels. I have got some info from many internet sites with independent research behind the benefits of certain supplements. However, to be honest, it doesn't help me eliminate the products I’ve discussed and know weather to go for test increase only, or a DHEA, DHT, pro hormone and growth hormone booster and weather its necessary to have a supplement that also has an estrogen blocker.

10). Basically i consider myself to have all basis covered in supplements with whey protein, glutamine, BCAA's, creatine and a pre workout supplement. However, I haven’t found THE BEST product to increase muscle mass through hormone boosters, wheather that be through growth hormone, pro-hormone, DHEA, DHT or testosterone booster. Therefore, what product would you recommend that will basically give me the BEST muscle gains on top of what I’m already taking providing the hormone/testosterone booster is beneficial for ultimate muscle increase?

11). After speaking to people with naturapath, sports nutrition, herbal medicine and body building background, they all had varied opinions. However, the products that were mentioned are: Testoroid/Zeus (included testofen and is said to increase test levels by 98.81%); sustain alpha or novedex xt; or nolvadex; or dovedex; or clomid; or arimidex or hcg or sustain alpha. And i read mickys info on diindolylmethane (a product that lowers carcinogenic estrogen and increases benign estrogen. Are you able to eliminate all of these products either by effectiveness, availability, cost etc. to 1-3 products so that I can then get a blood test before and after taking each product so that I can discover the very best for myself?

Hi Simon,

You seem to have a big interest in these testosterone boosters. In point 7) you raised the concern regarding $ and the cost effectiveness of incorporating a test booster into your stack. The thing is, your current stack isn't entirely cost effective as it is. Heres what I would change before we even talk about test boosters:

1. VP2 Protein: This protein is expensive. It comes in the 900g tubs and the absolute cheapest I could find was $60! Thats $67/kg for 83.9% protein. Change that to Spartan nutrition WPI. 89.3% protein, $129.95 (3kg) (with free shipping) comes to $43/kg including post. If your worried about the difference in absorbtion rates between hydrolyzed whey and pure WPI, then just add some cheap waxy maize starch and your set. No need to pay for such an expensive protein source.

2. Cell Mass. Its nothing but an overpriced creatine product. Ok lets breakdown the formula and their main ingredients:

They have a AVPT proprietary blend containing nothing but some fancy named creatine which they can charge rip off prices for -26.5%

Glutamine - 12.5%

5.9% of some more proprietary blend which has negligible differences in the real world but a lot on paper.

Now heres the real killer. 43.75% of "carbohydrates". Guess what? This is nothing but Maltodextrin, which is a cheap filler ingredient.

The remaining goes to flavours, calcium, sodium and some other stuff.
--

Heres what I would suggest instead. A good creapure creatine monohydrate. Thats all you need for creatine, you don't need some fancy branded rubbish that the Cellmass offers. I'm sure everyone here would agree that Creapure is made with the highest standards. We are stocking the Creapure Creatine from Primordial Performance mid next week for roughly $59.95/kg. You only need 5g of this stuff a day (Cellmass has 4.25g of creatine) so its $0.30 serving/day.

Maltodextrin, you can get this for $5/kg online. Yes, $5kg. Theres 7g of this stuff in Cellmass, so the real worth is $0.035/serving for 7g.

Theres 2g of glutamine in Cellmass in each serving. We have the Spartan BCAA+G which is 1:1 glutamine and BCAA's. Costs $0.23 for 2g of glutamine.

So totalling them up we get $0.30 + $0.035 + $0.23 = $0.57 per serving.
Cellmass is $1.70/serving. Difference in effectiveness is negligible and you wouldn't tell the difference.
=====

Now coming onto testosterone boosters. Theres no doubt that you have done your research into these products and the effectiveness of taking these supplements. However in the real world each individual body is going to respond differently to a different mix of substances. I'm afraid there is no research that is going to be able to prove that X amount of Y will help you Z%. Sure there are general things that apply to most people, such as protein is the building blocks of muscle and that creatine will generally help people achieve higher results. But when it comes down to more specific hormone altering and testosterone effecting substances its not going to apply to everybody and hence I'm not going to go into a debate about which is better than which.

If you want to try a testosterone product then buy it. Theres no use running around in circles trying to find out what will achieve greater results while you are missing out on the results if you just bought one already and started to use it :)

Heres what I would suggest for a test boosting product. Get either the Novedex XT or the Sustain Alpha by Primordial Performance. Heck, try both of them out in different periods of time. See for yourself which works best. Again I'm going to stress that while doing research is good, theres nothing like real world experience and testing the product yourself will be better than any research. After all, if your body doesn't react as expected no amount of research and scientific evidence will change what happens to you.

So in closing, heres what I would recommend for you:

Scrap the VP2 Protein and get this:
Spartan Nutrition WPI - Whey Protein Isolate - 3kg - Supplements Direct

Your BCAA's and Glutamine you can use Spartan Nutrition's BCAA+G 1:1
Spartan Nutrition BCAA+G - 1kg - Supplements Direct

If you like Black Powder than stick with it otherwise email me for a free sample of NO-Shotgun for you to try out via the contact us Page:
Contact Us

Cellmass seriously, drop that, its overpriced. Instead I would take the EAA+ and I'd wait till we get our Creapure Creatine in.
Spartan Nutrition EAA+ - 1kg - Supplements Direct

As for the Test booster
Gaspari Novedex XT - 60 Capsules - Supplements Direct

or wait for Sustain Alpha.

Dovedex claims to "increased natural (free) testosterone an average of 600%"

LOL

Originally Posted by Supp Direct

Hi Simon,


You seem to have a big interest in these testosterone boosters. In point 7) you raised the concern regarding $ and the cost effectiveness of incorporating a test booster into your stack. The thing is, your current stack isn't entirely cost effective as it is. Heres what I would change before we even talk about test boosters:

1. VP2 Protein: This protein is expensive. It comes in the 900g tubs and the absolute cheapest I could find was $60! Thats $67/kg for 83.9% protein. Change that to Spartan nutrition WPI. 89.3% protein, $129.95 (3kg) (with free shipping) comes to $43/kg including post. If your worried about the difference in absorbtion rates between hydrolyzed whey and pure WPI, then just add some cheap waxy maize starch and your set. No need to pay for such an expensive protein source.

2. Cell Mass. Its nothing but an overpriced creatine product. Ok lets breakdown the formula and their main ingredients:

They have a AVPT proprietary blend containing nothing but some fancy named creatine which they can charge rip off prices for -26.5%

Glutamine - 12.5%

5.9% of some more proprietary blend which has negligible differences in the real world but a lot on paper.

Now heres the real killer. 43.75% of "carbohydrates". Guess what? This is nothing but Maltodextrin, which is a cheap filler ingredient.

The remaining goes to flavours, calcium, sodium and some other stuff.
--

Heres what I would suggest instead. A good creapure creatine monohydrate. Thats all you need for creatine, you don't need some fancy branded rubbish that the Cellmass offers. I'm sure everyone here would agree that Creapure is made with the highest standards. We are stocking the Creapure Creatine from Primordial Performance mid next week for roughly $59.95/kg. You only need 5g of this stuff a day (Cellmass has 4.25g of creatine) so its $0.30 serving/day.

Maltodextrin, you can get this for $5/kg online. Yes, $5kg. Theres 7g of this stuff in Cellmass, so the real worth is $0.035/serving for 7g.

Theres 2g of glutamine in Cellmass in each serving. We have the Spartan BCAA+G which is 1:1 glutamine and BCAA's. Costs $0.23 for 2g of glutamine.

So totalling them up we get $0.30 + $0.035 + $0.23 = $0.57 per serving.
Cellmass is $1.70/serving. Difference in effectiveness is negligible and you wouldn't tell the difference.
=====

Now coming onto testosterone boosters. Theres no doubt that you have done your research into these products and the effectiveness of taking these supplements. However in the real world each individual body is going to respond differently to a different mix of substances. I'm afraid there is no research that is going to be able to prove that X amount of Y will help you Z%. Sure there are general things that apply to most people, such as protein is the building blocks of muscle and that creatine will generally help people achieve higher results. But when it comes down to more specific hormone altering and testosterone effecting substances its not going to apply to everybody and hence I'm not going to go into a debate about which is better than which.

If you want to try a testosterone product then buy it. Theres no use running around in circles trying to find out what will achieve greater results while you are missing out on the results if you just bought one already and started to use it :)

Heres what I would suggest for a test boosting product. Get either the Novedex XT or the Sustain Alpha by Primordial Performance. Heck, try both of them out in different periods of time. See for yourself which works best. Again I'm going to stress that while doing research is good, theres nothing like real world experience and testing the product yourself will be better than any research. After all, if your body doesn't react as expected no amount of research and scientific evidence will change what happens to you.

So in closing, heres what I would recommend for you:

Scrap the VP2 Protein and get this:
Spartan Nutrition WPI - Whey Protein Isolate - 3kg - Supplements Direct

Your BCAA's and Glutamine you can use Spartan Nutrition's BCAA+G 1:1
Spartan Nutrition BCAA+G - 1kg - Supplements Direct

If you like Black Powder than stick with it otherwise email me for a free sample of NO-Shotgun for you to try out via the contact us Page:
Contact Us

Cellmass seriously, drop that, its overpriced. Instead I would take the EAA+ and I'd wait till we get our Creapure Creatine in.
Spartan Nutrition EAA+ - 1kg - Supplements Direct

As for the Test booster
Gaspari Novedex XT - 60 Capsules - Supplements Direct

or wait for Sustain Alpha.

Originally Posted by Sim882

Dovedex claims to "increased natural (free) testosterone an average of 600%"

LOL

Theres a lot of marketing out there, and its needed for Supplement industries to survive in such a market. End of the day, you just gotta shift through all the marketing and find out for yourself which leads to greater gains.

Originally Posted by Supp Direct

Theres a lot of marketing out there, and its needed for Supplement industries to survive in such a market. End of the day, you just gotta shift through all the marketing and find out for yourself which leads to greater gains.

I may suggest it to my cousin. He urinates frequently with a disgusting odour especially after WPI, but even as his protein consumption approaches 200G.

I was the same until I was diagnosed with hypogonadism and prescribed testosterone, so I assume he has some testosterone issue (despite being in the normal range - he's yet to learn his precise score).

Hi Supp Direct! I want to thank you for your wise and knowledgable advice. U have just saved me a lot of $ and much stress over all these hormone/testosterone products etc. I already have mega mass forte and novedex xt. I was going to take mega mass first and get a blood test b4 i take mega mass (tribulus with 336mg of saponins per capsule), use it for 30 days (2 capsules a day/60 capsules in a container) and then get another blood test to check hormone/testosterone levels. Once i've done that i was going to try novedex xt (taking 2 caps a day/60 caps in a container) and use that for 30 days and then get another blood test to see results.


After reading what you said, it makes sence to try a couple different products to see your best results, if any. Therefore, would you agree to use the mega mass first (apparantly it increases test and estrogen so is it worth using an estrogen blocker with this?), then novedex xt? Or would you see if i can exchange these 2 products (including the novedex xt as Sustain Alpha also blocks estrogen) for Sustain Alpfa, Testoroid, Reductabol or Zeus? I've heard Reductabol, Testoroid, Zeus as well as Sustain Alpha are worth trying! I have just looked into these products and it says to increase test/hormone levels and drop estrogen levels too. Awsome! 2 benefits in one product! And with great results!

I've just found out that other stuff that really works but are prescription medicine. These are: Clomid; nolvadex; arimidex.

Just noticed sustain alpha is a spray. Heard that taken through the skin, test/hormone only get absorbed through the skin by 30% OR that hormone/test levels only increase by 30% from taking a product through the skin. Forgot which one, but apparantly one of these. True?

I ultimately, want the BEST product to increase test/growth hormone levels at a good value for $. So preferbly 1 product that does all.

Appreciate your advice!!

Originally Posted by Simon

Hi Supp Direct! I want to thank you for your wise and knowledgable advice. U have just saved me a lot of $ and much stress over all these hormone/testosterone products etc. I already have mega mass forte and novedex xt. I was going to take mega mass first and get a blood test b4 i take mega mass (tribulus with 336mg of saponins per capsule), use it for 30 days (2 capsules a day/60 capsules in a container) and then get another blood test to check hormone/testosterone levels. Once i've done that i was going to try novedex xt (taking 2 caps a day/60 caps in a container) and use that for 30 days and then get another blood test to see results.


After reading what you said, it makes sence to try a couple different products to see your best results, if any. Therefore, would you agree to use the mega mass first (apparantly it increases test and estrogen so is it worth using an estrogen blocker with this?), then novedex xt? Or would you see if i can exchange these 2 products (including the novedex xt as Sustain Alpha also blocks estrogen) for Sustain Alpfa, Testoroid, Reductabol or Zeus? I've heard Reductabol, Testoroid, Zeus as well as Sustain Alpha are worth trying! I have just looked into these products and it says to increase test/hormone levels and drop estrogen levels too. Awsome! 2 benefits in one product! And with great results!

I've just found out that other stuff that really works but are prescription medicine. These are: Clomid; nolvadex; arimidex.

Just noticed sustain alpha is a spray. Heard that taken through the skin, test/hormone only get absorbed through the skin by 30% OR that hormone/test levels only increase by 30% from taking a product through the skin. Forgot which one, but apparantly one of these. True?

I ultimately, want the BEST product to increase test/growth hormone levels at a good value for $. So preferbly 1 product that does all.

Appreciate your advice!!

No problem buddy... Glad to be of help

Yes you can try your Mega mass first. However if estrogen is a side effect then I suggest that you get an estrogen blocker, or try and swap it for something else.

Sustain Alpha is something we currently stock although I would suggest that you wait till early this week when we get our latest batch. This will be the latest Sustain Alpha and also the latest most of their products which are legal in Australia. In regards to your comment that its a topical product, the theory behind it is that its applied onto the skin and is absorbed directly through to the bloodstream which in fact will be more powerful than if you took the same dosages orally (via a capsule delivery system). Reason is that there shouldn't be anything to block the absorption through the skin while the digestive system reduces the potency. Primordial Performance is considering making an oral version but I've heard that they will need to bump up the dosages to match the potency of the current spray/topical solution.

We are also getting the Phyto-Testosterone which is a test mimicker and test effects amplifier so thats something you may want to look into when it arrives. Its the capsule version. I'm pretty sure you can take it along with Sustain Alpha but I'll have to have a further look into it and possibly confirm with PP before I give a final verdict on that one. However I think it would be a great thing to stack.

At the end of the day I personally wouldn't use something such as the mega mass if it will boost your estrogen levels without an estrogen blocker.

Simon just dont get milked cause supplements are just that something to supplement your diet.
Suppdirect has given you good advise dont use everything under the sun.

All sounds good! Thanks MickeJ and suppdirect! Ok, i exchanged novedex xt for Andro Stack. I was hoping to exchange it for sustain alpha or zeus. But they didn't have it. So was advised to get Andro Stack as a good substitute for zeus. Here is the ingredience:

zeus is: - testofen 350mg (trigonella foenum-graecum (Fenugreek) (seed) (standardized for 50% fenuside)
- Eurycoma longifolia 300mg (Long Jack) (root) (standardized for 20:1 extract)
- Rhodiola rosea 180mg (Golden Root) (root) (standerdized for 4% rosavin)

Absorption initiator: 2mg
- Bioperine
- Piper nigrum (black pepper) (fruit) *(standerdized for 95% piperine


Ok, thats zeus. Andro Jack is simular but im not sure what part of the plant Andro Stack has. Eg. root / fruit is alot stronger than whole plant extract. There4 by comparing the two products, is Zeus better? Or does andro jack have root / fruit and is also standerdized? I've heard u want something thats standardized.

Here is the ingredience for Andro Jack:
- Eurycoma Longfolia extract (100:1) (Toongkat Ali) equivalent dry herb 5000mg (NOT STANDERDIZED AND DOESN"T SAY ROOT EXTRACT)
- Coleus Forskohlii extract (100:1) equivalent dry herb 2000mg (AGAIN, NOT STANDERDIZED AND DOESN"T SAY ROOT EXTRACT)
- Horny Goat Weed Extract (20:1) (20% Icarinns) equivalent dry herb 1000mg
- Avena Sativa Extract (10:1) equivalent dry herb 500mg
- Mucuna pruriens extract (8:1) (20% L:Dopa) equivalent dry herb 400mg
- Fenugreek extract (10:1) (50% saponins) equivalent dry herb 500mg (also known as Testofen)

Absoption initiator: 2mg
- Bioperine (Piper Nigrum extract) 2mg.

Ok, that is the ingredience. Questions are: -what does equivalent mean? Heard standerdized is what i should look for.
-and 100:1 compared to 20:1? Is 20:1 stronger?
-and root/fruit extract is stronger than whole plant extract. What extract is Andro Stack?

Was going to try Andro Stack or Zeus first, then try tribulus (or other way round). then depending on what the results are like with the guys on this forum that will be soon taking it, I may then try sustain alpha.

Ur thoughts on this?