Thread: Dying?

Just adding too what Andypoo is asking; if our bodies are inhabited by eternal living souls, then what bodies did these souls inhabit before the evolution of modern humans? Homo sapiens have only existed for maybe 200K years. Also where have all the extra souls come from? Prior to the development of agriculture the global human population was stable at around 1 million people. We are now fast approaching 7 billion. Who/what is making all the extra souls?

Originally Posted by Tranquilo

Just adding too what Andypoo is asking; if our bodies are inhabited by eternal living souls, then what bodies did these souls inhabit before the evolution of modern humans? Homo sapiens have only existed for maybe 200K years. Also where have all the extra souls come from? Prior to the development of agriculture the global human population was stable at around 1 million people. We are now fast approaching 7 billion. Who/what is making all the extra souls?

You are making the assumption here that all lives we have are on this planet, and in this dimension, only. Life exist in other parts of the Universe also, as well as in other dimensions. In my experience, most past lives are not of an earthly nature.

Hi Jesper, it makes a perfect sense. After your explanation, it has opened my mind and gave me more answers to my questions that I was not able to answer or find those answers. More and more I ask my self if I am here on the earth that means I am here with a purpose. What ever I do and I have or will have or things will happen. All these already have been programmed in to my life and existence. But there is something that only I can change using my will power. I still have so many questions. Nevertheless, I've learned one thing, if you concentrate on something, you wish for and you believe in it, it will happen. Of course, it has to be a true and honest wish. Some people will say, it called "destiny" or "luck". Is it? I believe in coincidence. I often experience déjà vu.

Originally Posted by Tranquilo

Or maybe Natacha is schizophrenic, which is a recognised mental disorder that effects peoples perception of reality. Common symptoms include auditory hallucinations. The correct advice too give her is to seek medical attention. The voices in her head might be friendly now, but that can all change & it might start telling her to harm herself or others. Giving her reinforcement that the voices in her head are a good thing could potentially be catastrophic.

Natacha I'm not trying to alarm you, just providing some balance. The one off voice you heard is probably nothing. But if you continue to hear these voices you should seek qualified medical attention.

Interesting view. It is worth noting that many of the leading eastern philosophers/scientists/composers report similar phenomena, and describe interactions that completely defy logic and the rational mind. I for one is grateful that your advice was not taken by them, as our world would look very different if evolution is dictated by the mind only.

Tranquilo, just because you don't understand something, does not mean it is false, or does not exist.

Originally Posted by Andypoo

This is a great thread and I respect everything that people say, however -

If this life in human form is our 2nd or 3rd or 4th life, how does one explain the sheer chance
that out of millions of sperm the one that fertilised the egg is well... us?

Getting technical!

Hi Andypoo, great question. The assumption behind this question is that there will be a 'different' you, based on which sperm fertilises the egg. I suggest that the sperm that fertilises the egg may determine some of your genetics, but the sperm (or the egg) does not carry the soul that eventually incarnates.

How and when the soul enters the fertilised egg can be discussed. Legally, it is after 3 months (after that abortion is illegal). Some argue it happens the instant the egg is fertilised. I don't have an opinion myself .

I think it's important to understand with these issues that the whole of society has moved towards a rational answer for everything, proven by the scientific method. But this has only occurred in the last few hundred years, since the Enlightenment. The Enlightenment questioned nearly all aspects of religion and showed that some beliefs (such as 6000 year old Earth) were false and that many religious practices were based solely on maintaining political power and social control. This caused hurt and a fracture in society with the Church that continues. Before then, the Western world was relatively comfortable with elements of spirituality and mystery. However, the scepticism that society then developed towards the Church and religion has continued until today, and the requirement for evidential truth continues. Once burnt, twice shy.

I am comfortable with mystery (which is my favourite title for God). There are things I have experienced which I cant explain. Sure, science might try to show what happened, but they cant prove what happened. It's a mystery, the unknown. I'm happy and comfortable that I don't know everything. I'm not stating that science should not keep advancing and asking questions and posing new theories - those who have read me before will know I'm a great fan of science. But I think it is arrogant to think that in a few hundred years of science that we can answer everything. I think it will be millenia before we realise that we are only capable of understanding the minor depths of the universe with our physical brain. The more we know, the more we will realise that we dont know, and that the universe has unending depths of complexity.

Jesper, how did you learn and train these gifts. Also, what was the initial experience that opened up your mind to these things (short questions with not easy answers!)?

Originally Posted by azzah

I think it's important to understand with these issues that the whole of society has moved towards a rational answer for everything, proven by the scientific method. But this has only occurred in the last few hundred years, since the Enlightenment. The Enlightenment questioned nearly all aspects of religion and showed that some beliefs (such as 6000 year old Earth) were false and that many religious practices were based solely on maintaining political power and social control. This caused hurt and a fracture in society with the Church that continues. Before then, the Western world was relatively comfortable with elements of spirituality and mystery. However, the scepticism that society then developed towards the Church and religion has continued until today, and the requirement for evidential truth continues. Once burnt, twice shy.

I am comfortable with mystery (which is my favourite title for God). There are things I have experienced which I cant explain. Sure, science might try to show what happened, but they cant prove what happened. It's a mystery, the unknown. I'm happy and comfortable that I don't know everything. I'm not stating that science should not keep advancing and asking questions and posing new theories - those who have read me before will know I'm a great fan of science. But I think it is arrogant to think that in a few hundred years of science that we can answer everything. I think it will be millenia before we realise that we are only capable of understanding the minor depths of the universe with our physical brain. The more we know, the more we will realise that we dont know, and that the universe has unending depths of complexity.

Very well put Azzah. You have a great gift of communicating. Looking forward to more .

Originally Posted by azzah

Jesper, how did you learn and train these gifts. Also, what was the initial experience that opened up your mind to these things (short questions with not easy answers!)?

Although I have always asked existential questions (e.g. why are we here, where do we come from), but was hindered by my highly logical, rational and scientific mind . Having 2 university degrees in science and an MBA certainly didn't help!

I had my first experience when I was 40. My ex-wife Rossana (she is one of the founders of Size Matters, and some of you old timers may remember her) took me to an energetic healing course over a weekend. Apart from learning about chakras, I also experienced the feeling of energy from the 4th dimension, Chi, for the first time. I suddenly KNEW that chakras and Chi exists. I could feel Chi just as I can feel a chair, or a womans body. This did not change me as a person, but it changed the belief I held that "I know everything, and I know who I am", to.... "There is something which I do not know, the something that could change everything". It opened my mind to the possibility that there could be a greater, more expansive, reality and truth out there.

One year later I went to a weekend spiritual healing program I had heard a lot about. People sang and chanted, and everyone were hugging each other for a really long time, like 3 minutes per person! I was ready to run away! But.... having paid $250 for the weekend, I decided to try to get some value out of it . To cut a long story short, after lunch we ended up laying on the floor for a 1 hour meditation. In the middle of this meditation my dead father visits me. Right there in person in front of me. My first thought was I must be dreaming. But I was fully conscious and knew what is happening around me. I think my father would have been there for a couple of minutes. Whether it was this experience, or the sum of all experiences that weekend, at that weekend I transformed into a new person. There were another 11 monthly weekends as part of the program, and I did them all. And every weekend my life changed. During this year I let go of strong feelings of inadequacies manifesting as jealousy, anger, righteousness, control etc. Before this journey I was a person that was not unhappy at all, but not really happy either. After the 12 months I developed a renewed appetite for life, and new experiences. Many old beliefs that stopped me from doing this were let go of.

This set me up for the next stage, to understand what I am here to do in life, and what my own and unique gifts are. In 2007 I enrolled in a Sacred Mystery School (I really agree Azzah how you interchange God for Mystery!), a 1 year program (5 hours per week or so). This year taught me my gift of being a record keeper, e.g. being able to read the akashic and karmic records. This gift allows me to read any person's karma in past lives, and to lead them through a process of letting it go.

This school also opened my up to one key aspect of my purpose in life, which is to create a new organisational management framework and methodology, based on spiritual principles. I have not given this much time yet, but will in the next week or so start writing on my Facebook page called "Enlighetend Business" about this.

And in 2008 I had an intense relationship experience, that led me to seriously look at myself as a man. This journey unfolded another big aspect of my purpose, which is to teach men to be Men. Every man holds divine potential and unique gifts. Yet we often let programmed beliefs overwhelm us, so that only a shadow remain of who we truly are. Every man needs freedom, and if he creates an environment for himself where this is taken away, he is not true to himself. To be free allows a man to live on the edge, and this is the state that the masculine naturally aspires to. Yet our society, and religion, conspire to take that away from us, by effectively emasculating us. It is natural for a man to shine his full light, know his gifts, and what his purpose in life is. I have started to "experiment" with this on facebook. If interested, check out The Masculine Perspective | Facebook.

That is a little bit about me and my journey .

During meditation, some people can reach Stage 2 sleep. Its suspected we can also tap into our subconious/dream state during this time. It doesn't mean you are asleep, it means your brainwaves are... you could well be totally conscious.

Originally Posted by Jesper

You are making the assumption here that all lives we have are on this planet, and in this dimension, only. Life exist in other parts of the Universe also, as well as in other dimensions. In my experience, most past lives are not of an earthly nature.

I wasn't making an assumption, I was asking a question. So just to clarify you believe that the souls of aliens inhabit our bodies? You're not a scientologist are you?

Originally Posted by Jesper

Interesting view. It is worth noting that many of the leading eastern philosophers/scientists/composers report similar phenomena, and describe interactions that completely defy logic and the rational mind. I for one is grateful that your advice was not taken by them, as our world would look very different if evolution is dictated by the mind only.

Tranquilo, just because you don't understand something, does not mean it is false, or does not exist.

There's also a hell of a lot of people living in parks, sleeping in dirt & eating out of trashcans who hear voices in their head.

Jesper I understand everything that you & others have said in this thread. My skepticism is not due to a lack of understanding but rather the complete lack of any testable evidence to support any of your claims. I'm sorry but I will not believe in past lives, alien souls etc just because you say they exist, I need evidence. If you are able to provide evidence of there existence I will gladly examine it with an open mind. But until such time as you do I will continue too be a skeptic.

Originally Posted by Tranquilo

Jesper I understand everything that you & others have said in this thread. My skepticism is not due to a lack of understanding but rather the complete lack of any testable evidence to support any of your claims. I'm sorry but I will not believe in past lives, alien souls etc just because you say they exist, I need evidence. If you are able to provide evidence of there existence I will gladly examine it with an open mind. But until such time as you do I will continue too be a skeptic.

Fair is fair; the above objection is constructive and beautiful. When I mentioned the Qur'an earlier on, I said that one of its uniqueness amongst all other religious and/or philosophical books was the fact that it provided the reader with falsification tests. That is what Dr. Gary Miller was talking about when he mentioned the reason for the popularity of the late Albert Einstein. The fact was that giant mind did not only say what he said, but he also provided some falsification tests to his fellow scientist to disprove his claim...if they could. That was the main reason they paid attention to the man ...http://www.islam101.com/science/GaryMiller.html


Fadi.

Originally Posted by C_T

During meditation, some people can reach Stage 2 sleep. Its suspected we can also tap into our subconious/dream state during this time. It doesn't mean you are asleep, it means your brainwaves are... you could well be totally conscious.

This is an interesting point. I have read a similar report on alpha, gamma and delta brain waves and how meditation taps in a gamma wave state and creates the illusions and sensations experienced in meditation- They feel as real as a dram, with a awareness that dreaming does not have.. They think this also has a role to play in near death experiences.

My humble theory is this:

The human brain is unmatched in its complex, self-evolving nature.

If you want something enough you will believe it.
If you believe it enough you will see it.
Thats how we produced religion, thats how we produced every spiritual system.

And if its truth to you, then its real to you, how many people does it take to prove its real?

The problem comes in that to be proved something must be standardized and repeatable, and as it stands, spiritual perceptions and creations are very individualistic, and are not able to be compared. It could be theorized then that these perceptions are interpreted differently by different people.

The human brain is amazing, and i like about Jesper and other spiritual beliefs, over say standard religious beliefs is that it places the onus on the person, you are your creator. Even if spirituality is a bunch of benign, self absorbed, fantasy........ at least it is a positive notion.

Originally Posted by Fadi

Fair is fair; the above objection is constructive and beautiful. When I mentioned the Qur'an earlier on, I said that one of its uniqueness amongst all other religious and/or philosophical books was the fact that it provided the reader with falsification tests. That is what Dr. Gary Miller was talking about when he mentioned the reason for the popularity of the late Albert Einstein. The fact was that giant mind did not only say what he said, but he also provided some falsification tests to his fellow scientist to disprove his claim...if they could. That was the main reason they paid attention to the man ...The Amazing Qur'an


Fadi.

Objectively i cannot say the Koran is any less false than the Bible or Torah, and i have read all three. They are met in equal measures because they are all variations on the same system of implied moral codes and anecdotal stories. All are equally valid in what they wish to convey.

Falsification tests cannot apply to any set religious structure because these structures, at their roots, are based on faith, which of course is untestable, un-rational (in purely scientific terms) and thus un false-able.

Originally Posted by Tranquilo

I wasn't making an assumption, I was asking a question. So just to clarify you believe that the souls of aliens inhabit our bodies? You're not a scientologist are you?

I think a soul is a soul, without the need for classifying it as alien or not . If I wanted to meet an alien, I could just go out and mingle in societies that already exist on earth. What some people believe in, and live their life according to, is as alien as anything!

I think there is truth in everything, including Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Scientology etc. In other words, I don't exclusively believe in any religion, philosophy or other thought form. In terms of Scientology, my knowledge is very rudimentary as I have never naturally been attracted to it.