Thread: Can anyone explain this to me?

Originally Posted by natacha

Too many good things can be bad too and the outcome can be horrendous. For instance, good hearts and deeds of people can be overused for the purpose of EVIL. You’ve noticed: “What most people create, using their God power, is a reality in which they are not God. Karma prevents us from seeing who we really are!” There is a contradiction. How would you say, if a person is atheist and only believes in science? Their using their instinct, knowledge, and they think that they are doing the right thing. However, would that choice can be RIGHT or WRONG, the outcome is the same. If the person chooses WRONG choice, the person still believes it was the RIGHT choice to do or wise versa, unless, if IF he/she will admit that the choice was definitely WRONG.

Sorry Natacha, what is the contradiction? I don't understand what you are trying to say.

Originally Posted by natacha

The last sentence: “,,,,Karma prevents us from seeing who we really are!” Well, how would we know, who we really are? Again, it involves our morals and ethics. If we have to kill to save our self. It can be defined as good or wrong, ethical or unethical. It depends on the circumstances. If one of the Siamese twin has to die for the sake of another twin to survive. Is it ethical or unethical? Good or bad, it is all the same. If a mother is nurturing her child, saving her child from anything that may happen to him/her, she is protecting her child from not getting hurt, etc. She’s keeping her child in a cocoon, trying to save her child from any disease or accidents, etc. The outcome would be, eventually, her child get hurt or sick, or miserable all his/her life. Can you say the mother did wrong? She would not agree with you. If you ask the child, when he/she is a grown up person. The answer would surprise you.

Again, you are choosing to interpret what I write in a way I don't understand. You ask " Well, how would we know, who we really are?". Well this is what the spiritual journey is all about .

Morals and ethics are something you are introducing into the conversation. The only connection I see between Karma and morals and ethics, is that your morals and ethics IS YOUR KARMA.

I suspect one reason why we are poles apart may be because of your fixation on what is right or wrong, whereas I don't view the reality in that context at all. And neither does Karma, as Karma is not about right or wrong (as discussed in previous threads).

Originally Posted by natacha

You said: “Karma is not something that is fixed an unmovable in life, quite the opposite. We can all dissolve our Karma. The path to resolve Karma is a paradox itself, and is both ridiculously simple and difficult.”
The Karma is like a reservoir with the liquid inside. The liquid is our Karma. The more we adding to our reservoir, the more we are feeling the negative effect of our karma. If the reservoir half full, that would mean, our karma is OK. The less is the liquid in the reservoir, the less of bad karma we get effect on us. It detects everything, our thinking, our feeling, and our deeds, how we behave and treat people, etc. When we understand more about it, we change our thinking and behaviour. We think more carefully about our actions and perception about life, people, and circumstances.

Natacha, you view Karma as something external to us. Karma does not "detect" anything, Karma is a consequence of the choices we make (and ultimately the experiences that arise from these choices).

If we were to use an analogy, Karma would be a movie recorder/projector. It records Karma, to later play it back to you.

I understand the temptation to simplify Karma to a reservoir, but this is incorrect. Karma (or the film in the movie recorder) is infinite. As such, any claim of 25% Karma, or 50% karma, makes little sense. What is 50% of infinity? And how would you measure it?

Again I would like to gently point out your black and white view of Karma, when you say that 50% Karma is OK. This is not about OK or not OK. It is not about right or wrong. It is about how you experience life, and what you seek to experience in life going forward .

Jesper, To bring back the example of the angry person and to put it into the context of 'balance' which you mentioned and the lens of perception. I was trying to think of examples of how these interplay. Could we see it as attitude that rebounds in time? and/or reactions to the events in our lives (that reflect our perception).

So if you react angrily to an event it will reoccur over till you learn to react objectively? All this, of course, is our changing perception of the universe and ourselves (spiritual growth). I understand that all that happens is in aid of attaining enlightenment(and completing the great work) so karma must be too. So qualities like attitude, perception and reaction are all intertwined in Karmic theory. A person bumps into you at a crowded railway station - the angry response invokes karma - whilst he who simply forgives and forgets(realizing that such events are inedible) to continue with his will does not invoke Karma(or maybe its evoke).
Karma, might not be your physical illness, but rather your response to it.

You got it Pete :-).

I am off to a 2-week spiritual retreat in Bali, and look forward to connect with you all again when I return early March.

oh you lucky duck Jesper.....do you need someone to carry your bags??...lol...have a great time.

Hi Soriminah, quite an amazing experience! Got back yesterday.

There was a conversation about schizophrenia earlier in this thread, and I was fortunately to meet a woman on this retreat that has been diagnosed schizophrenic, and who has spend large parts of her life in mental institutions.

She is in her early 40's, and has been following a spiritual path for the last 10 years, and essentially cured herself. She explained to me how schizophrenia works spiritually and it was quite amazing. Again it re-enforces my view that medical science really is in the dark when it comes to any kind of chronic illness or disease.