Thread: The Elvolution of Consciousness.

Originally Posted by Jesper

You are of course absolutely right. What you say holds true, for you! If that is what you believe, it is also what you create. A life without meaning or purpose. A life where you think you are insignificant.

What you write is a true recipe for mediocracy, believing that all is random, that we are always victoms of what falls upon us. That we are powerless and all we can do is to simply wait for death. And that is the end of it.

You choose to believe that and that is your choice. I simply choose something different .

What I have said holds true for you as well. Regardless of whether you choose too believe it of not. But if you don't you just kidding yourself. Reality is not what you or I create, reality is the truth of the physical world that we all live in. You talk about creating something else for yourself. You are delusional if you think that your mind is capable of changing the truth of reality. I challenge you too give me 1 credible example of this power.

I don't think I'm insignificant but nor do I think that I'm special. I'm 1 of 6 billion humans on this planet. I'm not sitting idle waiting for death. In my lifetime I have a limited opportunity to form fulfilling relationships with a small number of people. I'm living a satisfying life pursuing the goals & values that I aspire too. But I'm not kidding myself about death. Death is something that happens to all living organisms. Once dead my brain will cease to function & conscious life will end. This is the truth for you, me & for all of us. And it's this truth that allows me to live a satisfying life right now. I'm not distracted by superstitions that have me wasting time in a vain hope of an afterlife.

I never said that evolution is random. In fact it's not. Understanding the laws of nature is not as you say a recipe for the mediocre. I would say that believing in something that has absolutely no basis in fact or truth is the real waste. I pity people like you who have been fooled into an unquestioning belief in something that is not real.

Originally Posted by Tranquilo

But I'm not kidding myself about death. Death is something that happens to all living organisms. Once dead my brain will cease to function & conscious life will end. This is the truth for you, me & for all of us. And it's this truth that allows me to live a satisfying life right now. I'm not distracted by superstitions that have me wasting time in a vain hope of an afterlife.
....... I would say that believing in something that has absolutely no basis in fact or truth is the real waste. I pity people like you who have been fooled into an unquestioning belief in something that is not real.

Mate, I see and understand what you're saying, but unfortunately, we have no real certainty about what happens at death. And it's not simply about an afterlife, per se. The brain is an amazing storehouse of energy, and whilst death ends life, we simply don't know what happens to that energy. Of course, you may well be right, but frankly, there is no way to know for sure until death.

As for "people like you being fooled"? It's got nothing to do with being fooled about anything. It's about a belief system, and if you don't agree with that beleif system, that's fine, but don't seek to ridicule those who hold different views. How fucking boring would life be if all believed the same thing? To summarily dimiss Jesper's, and many others' beliefs by saying there is no basis in truth or fact is simply your view. You may be right, but you can't disprove my belief system and I don't seek to disprove yours.

Originally Posted by take2

Mate, I see and understand what you're saying, but unfortunately, we have no real certainty about what happens at death. And it's not simply about an afterlife, per se. The brain is an amazing storehouse of energy, and whilst death ends life, we simply don't know what happens to that energy. Of course, you may well be right, but frankly, there is no way to know for sure until death.

As for "people like you being fooled"? It's got nothing to do with being fooled about anything. It's about a belief system, and if you don't agree with that beleif system, that's fine, but don't seek to ridicule those who hold different views. How fucking boring would life be if all believed the same thing? To summarily dimiss Jesper's, and many others' beliefs by saying there is no basis in truth or fact is simply your view. You may be right, but you can't disprove my belief system and I don't seek to disprove yours.

Well said, and agreed! T2

Originally Posted by Tranquilo

What I have said holds true for you as well. Regardless of whether you choose too believe it of not. But if you don't you just kidding yourself. Reality is not what you or I create, reality is the truth of the physical world that we all live in. You talk about creating something else for yourself. You are delusional if you think that your mind is capable of changing the truth of reality. I challenge you too give me 1 credible example of this power.

Hi Tranquilo. Good post and good comments .

I interpret your statement as if one absolute truth exists? You are right, but perhaps not for the reasons you think . The absolute truth in your reality only exist in your own mind. Where else can it exist? Not in my mind because I view things differently to you. Not in anyone else mind either, and I go further and argue that there is only one of you, and the only one that sees the world you do is you. So how can there ever be an absolute truth if we all see our world, hence our reality, slightly differently?

There is no thing as 'one reality'. How could there be? We think differently. We feel differently. We have different experiences. So who decides what the absolute truth is? You do. We all do.

Your reality is not based on the physical things you see around you. Your reality is based on how you experience these things.

From this understanding comes that you can indeed change your reality. You can change what people you attract in life. You can change how you view things. You can change your opinions.

It is true there is an absolute truth, but that truth is made up of all truths collectively. This truth is inclusive of all truths.

I like your way of thinking Jesper ive read on a lot of what your talking about and im just starting to understand it. But I am not at a stage where i can put it into practice.

I completely agree that we all create our own reality but I seem to revert to my old ways of blaming the way the world works or the way "chance" works in favour for some to justify the BS that i have to live with.

Im probably not ready to put into practice what ive learnt because i dont fully understand it yet.

at the expense of sounding too far left field... here goes.

Take a med-large dose of psychedelics and you will know first hand what consciousness means, it will be stripped away and slowly regained piece by piece, and the reflection of yourself will make you stronger. Many philosophers made their breakthroughs with such experiences, its only in the last 30 years its been deemed criminal.

Its been around forever. And shamans live long lives.

Originally Posted by C_T

at the expense of sounding too far left field... here goes.

Take a med-large dose of psychedelics and you will know first hand what consciousness means, it will be stripped away and slowly regained piece by piece, and the reflection of yourself will make you stronger. Many philosophers made their breakthroughs with such experiences, its only in the last 30 years its been deemed criminal.

Its been around forever. And shamans live long lives.

This is so true. Psychedelics strip away the ego and lay bare what exists underneath.

So what exactly do we see when we are free of our ego? I feel it is impossible to truly explain. All dimensions and doorways are open, of which this physical reality is only a very small part.

Originally Posted by Fabz

I like your way of thinking Jesper ive read on a lot of what your talking about and im just starting to understand it. But I am not at a stage where i can put it into practice.

I completely agree that we all create our own reality but I seem to revert to my old ways of blaming the way the world works or the way "chance" works in favour for some to justify the BS that i have to live with.

Im probably not ready to put into practice what ive learnt because i dont fully understand it yet.

Hi Fabz, yes that is the question; where do you start ?

And in truth there are many ways to start. I dabbled for a few years until I did a spiritual workshop that changed my life forever. I was deep in a meditation when my dead father visited me. Suddenly he stood right in front of me. I was fully conscious, with eyes closed, and there he was. I don't know exactly what transpired as we did not talk, but something happened.

One key realisation took place in that very moment. I went from the state of believing to the state of knowing. Spirituality went from being something I discussed from my mind into something that is a key part of who I am, and is indeed much larger than me.

In my experience, it is easier to begin the journey with others, either in group or in 1-on-1 sessions. Fabz, if you are interested, PM me where you live and I will see if I can suggest something .

Originally Posted by C_T

at the expense of sounding too far left field... here goes.

Take a med-large dose of psychedelics and you will know first hand what consciousness means, it will be stripped away and slowly regained piece by piece, and the reflection of yourself will make you stronger. Many philosophers made their breakthroughs with such experiences, its only in the last 30 years its been deemed criminal.

Its been around forever. And shamans live long lives.

You see the world with more clarity as you are stripped of all the "filters" in which we perceive reality. You see the world "as is".

What are these filters?

Ego - Obviously one of the biggest reasons people perceive the world as they do.

Need for definition - We as humans live our lives by defining what's around us and it is in our nature to do so. Unfortunately many things in reality cannot be simply "defined" as there is always another way to look at it. This is the basis of all arguments and conflict.

Now, when you are stripped of these filters, the world is just what it is, and all you are left with is raw consciousness where all you can do is observe reality and either "appreciate and love" or "fear and loathe". When people argue, it is because they look at the same thing in a different way and their definition conflicts with somebody elses definition. When on a psychedelic, you see past that and see things as I like to say - "as is".

Psychedelics are powerful reality exploring tools that must be respected. I'm not glorifying them in any way as they are not for most people and they can fuck you up if abused. Some things are better not knowing. What you learn on psychedelics change your outlook on life as you see more to reality than what is normally perceived. Depending on the person, they may get depressed, frightened, angry, enlightened, extremely happy or believe they have gone insane, depending on what the particular journey entails and what they perceive on it.

One thing that I hate is trying to tell somebody what you saw and learned afterwards and they're like "WTF?"

Tranquilo, what I find interesting about your perspective is that it's just as fundamentalist as the most rapid right-wing Christian. Truth is always changing. No one in science would ever declare there is one, fixed truth. Whether that be the big bang, evolution, physics, quantum physics, chemistry, etc. We, and our understanding, are always changing and evolving through a mix of discovery and evolution.

If people are honest, even those who believe in 'one' true truth, if they look back to to five years ago, they will generally have very different perspectives now than what they had then. Our views often change so slowly that we do not notice that they have changed at all, but they have. Whenever I think I have found the key, another door opens and another key has to be discovered.

Very well put Azzah .

I had a cool moment yesterday. I was off running in one of the local nature parks listening to James Blunt sing 'Shine On', a song I really like, and was at the top of the hill when a falcon type bird took off and glided above me. It was so graceful and beautiful I just stopped and appreciated it and a shiver went down my spine. It was amazing just entering fully into the now. It was kind of transcendent and for 10 seconds there was no past or future, just that moment. Then reality hit and I kept on running. I'm sure we don't allow ourselves enough time these days to relax, explore and observe nature and absorb the beauty around us.

Completely agree. I reckon the most important time is 'me time' .

It is amazing how the world looks when you stop time and become completely still and present. I experience it a little bit similar to an orgasm, but rather than sharing your masculine essence you share your heart and capacity to love. Both are amazing!

Hope I didn't offend anyone with this sudden sexual turn .

small hijack, but was reading the bike thread, and absolutely, when you become one with a motorcycle, and give it a little through a twisty, feeling every inch of grip! OMFG not an orgasm but damn close!!! The sound, the heart rate, you stop and your literally shaking!

Yep. That's why I decided to get my bike license early this year and get a bike. Just love that feel of thrill and freedom. It is intoxicating. .