Thread: What Happens When You Die?

Originally Posted by ProteinDirect

The Jehovah Witnesses or JWs are a cult and were never part of mainstream Christianity. They should actually be called Watchtowerites since their whole doctrine comes from the Watchtower. Yes the JWs are very decent people with good intentions but they are nevertheless wrong in their beliefs. They are held in bondage by the Watchtower. I actually challenged one of the JWs to tell me one wrong thing the Watchtower society ever did and boy did this JW go quiet on this subject. Couldn't name one thing. Even I can tell you things that my church did wrong in the past or where they erred but not the Watchtower.

Rix, religion isn't really that confusing. People make it confusing. It also depends on which religion you're talking about because after all, if you talk about the Bible it's like Mark Twain said: "It ain't the things that I don't understand about the Bible that bother me, it's the things that I do understand".

But for those who think: "My god would never send people to hell" this may surprise you: I agree 100%. YOUR god couldn't send people to hell because he does not exist. I don't mean to offend you and I can assure you offending you is not my intention but your god doesn't exist: he's just a figment of your imagination. You just created a god that thinks like you, does things the way you want them done, etc, etc.

Goes to show you know nothing about the Witnesses then. Their docterine does NOT come from the Watchtower. Their docterine comes from the BIBLE and they have a PUBLICATION called the Watchtower which discusses things FROM THE BIBLE.

How about getting your facts right before slandering another religion and calling them a cult.

What point are you trying to make by challenging a JW what their religion has done wrong? They haven't started wars and killed millions of people in the name of religion. They haven't burned people at the stake for not converting to their religion.

How many other religions were persecuted during the holocaust for their beliefs? The JWs were required to wear a purple triangle the distinguish them from other inmates and were tortured and killed. The only way to avoid persecution and death was to renounce their beliefs - not many did. Their children were beaten up and others were taken from their parents to orphanages, schools or re-homed to be raised as Nazis.

Funnily enough, Rudolpf Hoss used the witnesses as an example to his SS soldiers as the witnesses had unshakeable faith and told them that only when the SS men had unshakeable faith as the wintnesses, would the Hitler state be secure. They were often used by the Nazi camp guards as servants because they were so trustworthy and never tried to escape the camps.

Witnesses have been persecuted for being conscience objectors. For not becoming involved in politics, wars and other man-made atrocities around the world - those also in the name of religion. It is their belief that it is up to God alone to judge others. Firstly, to love others and do unto others as you would have them do unto you. And you wonder why they cannot think of what their religion has done to others. How about you get down off your high horse and get your facts right.

Maybe you need to check your bible about judging others "Do not judge so that you will not be judged. or "everyone of you who passes judgement, for you who judge practice the same thing."

Chris PD was posting tongue in cheek. I get the impression that he thinks some of us think Christians are losers and felt that he was getting in first. But im sure he can explain that better.

Just clearing up some apparent confusion.

Originally Posted by soriminah

What point are you trying to make by challenging a JW what their religion has done wrong? They haven't started wars and killed millions of people in the name of religion. They haven't burned people at the stake for not converting to their religion.

No but they have annoyed millions of people by knocking on doors, riding bikes, dressing professionally and generally being too nice for their own good.

Originally Posted by Bricktop

No but they have annoyed millions of people by knocking on doors, riding bikes, dressing professionally and generally being too nice for their own good.

Wrong religion - that'd be the mormons.

Originally Posted by soriminah

Wrong religion - that'd be the mormons.

No i meant JW, but i got my transport mixed up! They don't have the bikes but are still equally annoying when knocking on doors. Though i do enjoy that classic toilet time reading = the Watchtower magazine. Cracker of a publication that.

I often wonder what would happen if a Mormon and JW turned up at the same time, would there be conflict?

Hopefully if there was a conflict the JW did not lose any blood, because we know how they feel about blood transfusions.

Lets just hope that never occurs.

Originally Posted by Bricktop

You have me interested, mate if its not too intrusive could you elaborate on what it means to be a 'committed progressive christian'? including exact beliefs, and worship habits.
cheers.

Sorry, have only just got back onto the system.

Hmmm...hard question to answer. The Church I go to belongs to the Uniting Church, which is generally mainstream orthodoxy. However, I belong to a very orthodox Church. For example, God is not a being, but being itself - the source or ground of being. Thus God is not worshipped, cannot be explained, only experienced. Jesus was not the literal son of God, virgin birthed, crucified for our sin or raised from the dead. Yet he showed us a life so full of God he had the courage to give it away, to love wastefully, to live life and help others live there lives to the full. He represents a path, or window, to the God of love, life and being.

PD represents a very small portion of the Christian church which is particularly fundamental. PD which denomination do you attend?

I was raised Pentecostal and much of your 'theology' sounds Pentecostal derived.

We've been struggling with the question you've asked ourselves and come up with a creed, or statement of belief. I think I may have posted this b4 but I'll post again.

I hope its thought provoking and may show everyone a different shade of what Christianity can be.

The Canberra Affirmation

As progressive Christians in the 21st century, we are uncomfortable with rigid statements of belief, as we recognise our understandings are shaped by life experiences within cultural and environmental contexts. Yet, there are some common understandings which continue to shape our lives, both individually and in community with others. These we seek to affirm and celebrate:

• We celebrate that our lives are continually evolving in a web of relationships: continuous with historical humans and their societies; with other forms of life; and with the ‘creativity’ present at the origins of the universe. Over billions of years this ‘creativity’ - the coming into being of the new and the novel - has undergone countless transformations, and we and all other life forms are its emerging products. Thus we are called to live in community, respecting all human beings, all life forms, our planet and universe.

• We affirm there is a presentness in the midst of our lives, sensed as both within and beyond ourselves, which can transform our experiences of this earth and of others. Various imaginative ideas have been used to describe this presentness: ‘God’, ‘sacred’, ‘love’, ‘creativity’. We recognise all attempts at attributing meaning in our lives, are shaped by prevailing thought. Ultimately, our response can only be as awe-inspiring mystery beyond the limits of our ability to understand our world.

• We honour the one called Jesus, a first century Galilean Jewish sage loyal to the traditions of Israel. Shaped by his religious tradition, he also invited others, through distinctive oral sayings and parables about integrity, justice, and inclusiveness, and an open table fellowship, to adopt and trust a re-imagined vision of life. As we too share in that vision, we affirm the significance of his life and teachings, claiming ourselves to be ‘followers of Jesus’.

• We receive the Hebrew and Christian scriptures known as the Bible, as a collection of documents rich in historical memory and religious interpretation which describes others attempts to address the ‘sacred’. It forms an indispensable part of our tradition and personal journeys. We claim the right to question and interpret its texts, empowered by open critical biblical scholarship as well as from our own life experiences. We accept that other sources – stories, poems and songs – imaginative pictures of human life both modern and ancient, can nurture us and others in a celebration of the ‘sacred’ in life.

• We recognise there are many paths to the ‘sacred’. We respect the diversity and pluralism of truth-claims, often in the midst of serious disagreement. In and with this diversity we honour the integrity and meaning of each religious tradition and the people who practice them. We reject all attempts to convert others to any fixed body of beliefs or a religious point of view, which they would not come to through their own open, free, and considered explorations.

• We acknowledge that a transformative path of inclusion and integrity involves living responsibly and compassionately in community with others, while caring for our planet. Such a path asks us to adopt values supporting social equality and connectedness. It entails non-violent peacemaking and considered but loving forgiveness. It invites passion and action for social justice, and stewardship of the earth and all its life forms. It encourages humour, challenge, and enormous personal growth. At the centre of all this is a personal willingness to risk growth into radical lovingness.

For of such, we believe, is our hope for the future.

Also, check out http://abc.com.au/news/video/2008/10/06/2382822.htm for a different approach from Melbourne. Gutsy move.

Great to have some input from you too Jesper! You always having something wise and thought provoking to say. You always make me pause.

Cheers mate, great info and a well written reply.

one thing we here at SM hold our beliefs whatever they maybe close to our hearts. which is a sign of good company

Without offending anyone (which I'm sure I'm about to do), I find fundamental Christianity totally unintellectual, non-sensical and to be nothing more than cliche ridden. I think everyone needs to approach their religious tradition with an open mind, good scholarship, and be open to other inputs and what they might teach.

I beleive in God and i beleive in heaven and hell.

When we die, we will all meet our creator, whether we like it or not.

He will then judge us.

Originally Posted by anthony

I beleive in God and i beleive in heaven and hell.

When we die, we will all meet our creator, whether we like it or not.

He will then judge us.

But the BIG question is........ What if "he" is a "she"?

Its not a human.

Originally Posted by Bricktop

But the BIG question is........ What if "he" is a "she"?

God is neither masculine nor feminine..... God the "male" is a creation of a patriarchal history.

Originally Posted by take2

God is neither masculine nor feminine..... God the "male" is a creation of a patriarchal history.

Some might argue that God is a 'creation' full stop.........