Some of you are conveniently forgetting about the fossil record & what we have learned from genetics. Man was not created by anyone or anything. Homo sapiens (like all life that has ever lived on this planet) evolved from an earlier form. Ultimately all life is descended from the first single cell bacteria that took hold around 3.5 billion years ago. There is no rational argument that can refute this.
I just saw my parents having sex, that's the last time I visit that website.
Tranquilo, can science actually prove what happened 3.5 billions years ago? Or is it just theory?
Thank you very much for your reply PD, (what is your name by the way?). I don't know about having a great mind, but with the mind I do have, which purpose should I be using it for in your opinion? Basically what I'm asking you for is some clarification on your observation of me. Thank you for your time Sir.Originally Posted by ProteinDirect
Fadi.
I think the single celled bacteria or viron (spelling) is almost scientific fact, I believe that UV actually had something to do with it too. I recently read a theory that just after our planet got an extra large dose of UV rays - many more evolved animals started appearing. However, I also believe that there has been some unexplained 'leaps' in evolution - certainly as far as man is concerned.
It is also a scientific fact that the female mitochondrial DNA gave proof that all female genes started with one female in (yes you guessed it) South Africa about 160,000 years ago.
My understanding is that, as far as humans go, it is a matter of evolution with a couple of strange 'leaps' - both ends of the argument in one theory. For instance, we came from Apes - but with a little tinkering at least twice.
Pete
I'm glad you've clarified your stance Pete. I actually thought you were having a laugh at us first, but it's obvious you weren't. So again, I thank you for putting your case forward Sir; respect!
Fadi.
Hmmm...I know I will be flamed again but then you asked for it. My name is Julian. You said in one of your posts that you love and respect everyone especially the non-muslims (or something along these lines). This is great. I am not sure why my opinion is important to you but here it is: I believe every individual should glorify God, the creator of man kind by obeying and keeping His commandments. You are proud of your daughter's achievements and this is bringing you pride. I have a feeling one of the reasons she is doing well in school is because of your guidance. Obviously I am talking here about the Christian God, the God of the Bible. I had several discussions with muslims and I remember once there were four of them that came to our shop and brought their preacher so we can have a theological discussion. It was a great and very amicable discussion and also one of my friends was there who is a preacher and a missionary. Those muslim dudes were great, very amicable and very big on philosophy. But a short comparison of the founders of Christianity and Islam, a Jesus versus Mohammed was enough to highlight major differences: one rose from the dead, while the other is buried in Medina I believe. One never killed anyone and even as he died he asked God to forgive those responsible for his death, he performed miracles and he was never married. Now, both Christians and Muslims can be blamed for not always following their teachings, but if one was to follow Christ compared to one following Mohammed, anyway, I believe one should do this comparison for himself and then decide.
We still remained friends with those Muslims but we never continued our discussion as our differences were quite obvious.
I believe we are all full of opinions, ideas, etc. Even those who say they are "independently minded" have their own opinions made on their own or others observation. The question is who should I listen to. My decision has been made and I am going to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. I am not sure if I have answered your question.
keep in mind in science a theory is a fact (eg it has been proven), a hypothesis is a unproved theory
It did start in Africa, but most likely East africa. And it would have been more like 200,000 years ago. This of course is the thrust of the theory that we all came from a single spot in Africa.
Keep in mind as well that the theory does not say that we "came" from apes, but that we have a common ancestor. The apes are one branch, we are the other.
Ok, thank you Julian. Why would you be flamed again? You won't be flamed by me if that's what you meant. I know you've held yourelf back from saying all; I understand.
Fadi.
The theory of common descent is exactly that, a theory. One supported by a large volume of scientific evidence. As for life beginning on Earth around 3.5 billion years ago; this is supported by the fossil record. The oldest rock's that have been found on Earth are ~4 billion years old. These rocks are devoid of any fossilised evidence of life. The oldest rocks that show evidence of fossilised life are ~3.5 billion years old. Is it possible that life existed earlier then this? Yes. Have we found any evidence to suggest life existed earlier then this? No. Is it possible that at some stage in the future we might find evidence of life older then 3.5 billion years? Yes.
This link is a document that gives the scientific case for common descent much better then I ever could: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/section1.html
I just saw my parents having sex, that's the last time I visit that website.
Let me explain what I mean about "flaming". I had discussions with Muslims several times. In fact some of the longest discussions I had about religion were with Muslims. It was again very amicable. We disagreed of course but we had plenty of time to discuss why we think something and why they think something else. However, sometimes outside spectators get involved because they don't agree with my point and they think I am being discriminatory somehow against muslims and we are all equal and none of us is better and we should just all get along, etc, etc. The annoying part is while these outsiders promote "tolerance" they are discriminatory against my views and they are not quite tollerant of my beliefs. Again, the flaming was not coming from the muslims.
Another example I can give you was at the IFBB Australia last year where I was the major sponsor. I week earlier I was the major sponsor at the IFBB Queensland. That meant I had to send some stock to someone's place and then take that to the show. Anyway, same QLD guy was at the Nationals in Sydney and I am not sure how we got started about religion. The guy was an evolutionist as far as I can remember and to my surprise he was well versed in the creationists belief of a young Earth. He was a university lecturer and we had quite an interesting discussion. Everything was going well until his friend interfered and started asking
"but what about...?" We had to end the discussion because his friend was getting quite emotional and to her our amicable disagreements were really bothering her and wrecking her mood
You're right though. I did hold back a bit
Take a look at this
Timeline of human evolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Note 150ka : Mitochondrial eve.. Now I don't believe Darwin had this in his theory..
Once again at 60ka with the Mitochondrial Adam.Thats' two strange 'jumps' or 'additions' in the last 150ka
Though i am a fan of Darwin - he can't explain this - there simply must be more to the story
Pete
I knew only too well that you held back Julian and I also knew why you did so. I agree, an interfaith dialogue is usually sent in disarray by overly-excited onlookers for reasons best known to themselves. I am a firm Muslim as you are a firm Christian. So again, I must thank you for taking the time to reply brother.Let me explain what I mean about "flaming"...
You're right though. I did hold back a bit
God Bless,
Fadi.
Neither of these are evolutionary jumps & there is nothing strange about them. Mitochondrial DNA is a way to trace our most recent common ancestor. The most recent person that everyone alive today is descended from. Man is not special in this regard. The same process could be used too identify the most recent horse that all horses alive today are descended from etc etc.
I just saw my parents having sex, that's the last time I visit that website.
Yes your right. MtDNA is every where..
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