Thread: Low testosterone

Originally Posted by Mark

Good stuff. Make no mistake I don't question the Doc you're describing is a fool. I also know what it feels like to want to treat an area but come up against resistance with doctors.

all the best!

Yeah it is odd - my Aunty came when i saw him the 2nd time to assist me as I'd said he was difficult and cold.

Thing is though - i have seen over the years 4 neurologist, now 2 specialists relating to this problem, 1 shrink (to rule out my low T was caused by anything mental), and 1 NT doctor for prior sinusitis, and its fair to say this Endo is the only specialist who i have ever met who seemed cold and detached. I'm actually used to liking/trusting my doctors so this was an odd experience for me.

Originally Posted by Sim882

Yeah it is odd - my Aunty came when i saw him the 2nd time to assist me as I'd said he was difficult and cold.

Thing is though - i have seen over the years 4 neurologist, now 2 specialists relating to this problem, 1 shrink (to rule out my low T was caused by anything mental), and 1 NT doctor for prior sinusitis, and its fair to say this Endo is the only specialist who i have ever met who seemed cold and detached. I'm actually used to liking/trusting my doctors so this was an odd experience for me.

Maybe he has low test and is depressed.... LOL

Originally Posted by take2

Maybe he has low test and is depressed.... LOL

Well that's what he was trying to argue - depression was causing low T.

The shrink who evaluated me at the end said the endo was just being ridiculously conservative and there were no signs of depressions and just recommended prescribing T.

Funny thing was the endo appeared to then ignore all of this.

THe problem with this doctor is also he's so old school that he doesn't communicate his views at all - I mean he could have a valid reason for thinking that there is some other factor causing my low T, but he won't reveal it if he does. My bodyhair, genitals, muscularity are normal - perhaps he's used to only dealing with extreme cases of delayed onset puberty and therefore simply hasn't encountered too many examples like me.

Originally Posted by Sim882

Well that's what he was trying to argue - depression was causing low T.

The shrink who evaluated me at the end said the endo was just being ridiculously conservative and there were no signs of depressions and just recommended prescribing T.

Funny thing was the endo appeared to then ignore all of this.

THe problem with this doctor is also he's so old school that he doesn't communicate his views at all - I mean he could have a valid reason for thinking that there is some other factor causing my low T, but he won't reveal it if he does. My bodyhair, genitals, muscularity are normal - perhaps he's used to only dealing with extreme cases of delayed onset puberty and therefore simply hasn't encountered too many examples like me.

mmmmm.... I know from bitter experience that my depression was, in part, attributed to low test. Post-treatment I am a new bloke.

Originally Posted by take2

The T cream I use is "Micronised Bioidentical USP Natural Testosterone"

So testogel, androgel and androderm (patches) contain synthetic test or bio-identical test??

Originally Posted by M1CH43L

So testogel, androgel and androderm (patches) contain synthetic test or bio-identical test??

Take 2, if you could elobrate the distinction between synthetic test or bio-identical test in both practice and effect I'm sure both Mich43L and I would be grateful

From what i've researched bio identical T is the same as the stuff in out body and it's sourced from plants or soy or something like that.

Here's a great seminar on TRT for GP's:
DiGiVision Player :: By Insta-Tapes Digital Media

It's relevant to alot of things said on here in this thread to do with:
*finerstide messing up males
*IM injections are NO LONGER the gold standard creams and gels are
*A few things on Bio-identical cream (it's hard to follow cause the guy speaks fast sometimes due to assuming the audience know certain specifics)

M1CH43L - Do you have low T also? Where are you at with it?

can't get the slide to work for some reason - interested in what it says about finasteride messing up males. I know a few prominent US doctors have argued it creates a rare, difficult to treat form of hypogonadism.

Originally Posted by M1CH43L

From what i've researched bio identical T is the same as the stuff in out body and it's sourced from plants or soy or something like that.

Here's a great seminar on TRT for GP's:
DiGiVision Player :: By Insta-Tapes Digital Media

It's relevant to alot of things said on here in this thread to do with:
*finerstide messing up males
*IM injections are NO LONGER the gold standard creams and gels are
*A few things on Bio-identical cream (it's hard to follow cause the guy speaks fast sometimes due to assuming the audience know certain specifics)

Originally Posted by Andypoo

M1CH43L - Do you have low T also? Where are you at with it?

Unfortunately yes, my symtoms are very similar to simm's. I'm on TRT atm but on patches which have done shit all really i felt ok the first 4 days of using them then pretty much back to normal. I've asked my dr to put me on something else but as 99% of GP's she has no clue of how HRT or how the male endocrine system works, So she thinks patches are the only option and will fix everything and take a few months to fully kick in (which is beyond me why she thinks that). She think creams don't work and are useless and IM is dangerous. Mind you though this is the best doctor i've seen so far after two years of going to different doctors with the same problems. Most GP's refuse to even do bloods for test and the ones that did when the tests came back under clinical or borderline clinical "it's completely fine" or "a little low, but fine".

Originally Posted by Sim882

can't get the slide to work for some reason - interested in what it says about finasteride messing up males. I know a few prominent US doctors have argued it creates a rare, difficult to treat form of hypogonadism.

Are you using firefox i know i had to install some plug-in for it to work with firefox.

Initially on 2xtestogel I had this first few day high only for it to subside.

As I have mentioned, my T only increased to 9.2 and I didn't feel that much better, until I started applying to my scrotum, head and jaw.

The reason apparently you can get such a massive kick at the start is b/c its basically a domapine hit if your body has been starved of T for long (and in addition, your natty production soon shuts down).

Have u got ur levels retested? And gels work for many people. Patches I have heard are rather irritating to use, but obviously opinions differ

Edit: what he says about Finasteride is alarming to me

Originally Posted by M1CH43L

Unfortunately yes, my symtoms are very similar to simm's. I'm on TRT atm but on patches which have done shit all really i felt ok the first 4 days of using them then pretty much back to normal. I've asked my dr to put me on something else but as 99% of GP's she has no clue of how HRT or how the male endocrine system works, So she thinks patches are the only option and will fix everything and take a few months to fully kick in (which is beyond me why she thinks that). She think creams don't work and are useless and IM is dangerous. Mind you though this is the best doctor i've seen so far after two years of going to different doctors with the same problems. Most GP's refuse to even do bloods for test and the ones that did when the tests came back under clinical or borderline clinical "it's completely fine" or "a little low, but fine".



Are you using firefox i know i had to install some plug-in for it to work with firefox.

Not only are patches irritating but they are hard to explain when some asks you "what that??"

No haven't my levels done, the first four days weren't that great it wasn't a kick i just felt like a little better and didn't have a headache at all for those four days, I've asked to change to test gel but my GP thinks it's useless because it has a very bad absorption rate and what dose absorb will vary and that it will just rub off on clothes so it doesn't work.

I don't agree with this but you can't change a GP's mind. I'm feeling that the patches aren't working anyway.

I've been using the patches for about 3 weeks now and still feel contently drained and fatigued from the moment i wake up, can't think straight, low libido, head aches, and now just recently when having sex having trouble maintaining a full erection.

Well first thanks for the link - listening to it now

Secondly, if the absorption of gels is crap, you bear the risk not her. I can't understand why she woudln't be willing to give a 1 month trial of gel a go - simply because its not going to damage you. Indeed, show her the Bayer which suggests most people respond well to 2xdaily of testogel.

Interesting your doco says if gels don't absorb well it may mean your thyroid is problematical (I wonder if this is what happened to me).

Originally Posted by M1CH43L

Not only are patches irritating but they are hard to explain when some asks you "what that??"

No haven't my levels done, the first four days weren't that great it wasn't a kick i just felt like a little better and didn't have a headache at all for those four days, I've asked to change to test gel but my GP thinks it's useless because it has a very bad absorption rate and what dose absorb will vary and that it will just rub off on clothes so it doesn't work.

I don't agree with this but you can't change a GP's mind. I'm feeling that the patches aren't working anyway.

I've been using the patches for about 3 weeks now and still feel contently drained and fatigued from the moment i wake up, can't think straight, low libido, head aches, and now just recently when having sex having trouble maintaining a full erection.

I've found a US study done in regard to laboratories clinical ranges.

Taken from PubMed Home (testosterone studies)





J Sex Med. 2006 Nov;3(6):1085-9.

Wide variability in laboratory reference values for serum testosterone.

Lazarou S, Reyes-Vallejo L, Morgentaler A.

Harvard Medical School, Division of Urology, Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, Boston, MA, USA.


INTRODUCTION: The laboratory determination of testosterone levels consistent with a diagnosis of hypogonadism is complicated by the availability of multiple testosterone assays and varying reference ranges.

AIM: To assess current laboratory practices regarding availability of testosterone assays and use of reference values.

METHODS: A telephone survey of 12 academic, 12 community medical laboratories, and one national laboratory.

MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES. Types of androgen assays offered and determination of reference values.

RESULTS. All of the academic and eight of the community centers performed total testosterone testing. Free testosterone was performed in-house by six of the 12 academic and one community center. Testing for bioavailable testosterone, free androgen index, and percent free testosterone was performed in-house by no more than two centers. There were eight and four different assays used for total and free testosterone, respectively. One national laboratory offered equilibrium dialysis measurement of free testosterone. Of the 25 labs, there were 17 and 13 different sets of reference values for total and free testosterone, respectively. The low reference value for total testosterone ranged from 130 to 450 ng/dL (350% difference), and the upper value ranged from 486 to 1,593 ng/dL (325% difference). Age-adjusted reference values were applied in four centers for total testosterone and in seven labs for free testosterone. All reference values were based on a standard statistical model without regard for clinical aspects of hypogonadism. Twenty-three of the 25 lab directors responded that clinically relevant testosterone reference ranges would be preferable to current standards.

CONCLUSIONS. Laboratory reference values for testosterone vary widely, and are established without clinical considerations.

PMID: 17100942 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

There are so many variables within the human body it's somewhat of a guessing game for both Dr and patient.

Of the 3 most popular methods I think the gel/cream is still the best overall option.