Thread: Low testosterone

I have been thinking about treatment options and am starting to get really confused.

I got this information off bb.com:

Q: What is the best form of testosterone administration: Gels/Creams or Injectables?

Hotly debated topic: a definitive answer is hard to give - most veterans side with injectables, however we will lay out the most common pros and cons of each:

GELS -

Pros: Better history at improving libido, more stable test levels due to everyday application, no needle injections, Good DHT conversion rate.

Cons: Overall test levels tend not to be as high as injectable (clearly important), danger of accidentally transferring drug to others real danger, absorption rate differs for everyone.

INJECTABLES -

Pros: Overall simpler process, generally produces higher Test Levels, zero contamination risk.

Cons: Injectables have to be injected (not as bad as people think).

Q: How long does TRT generally take to make you feel your best?

Three to six months generally: for at least the first three months your doctor (if you have a good one) will want to adjust dotages and call up blood labs to find your perfect spot. Three to six months can sound like a discouraging amount of time but take hope, after those six months 95% of patients usually report a 180 degree turnaround in health; it's worth the wait! However, to sweeten the deal - most patients report *improving* signs of health 3-5 weeks into treatment (improvement in mental acuity generally first).


Q: I'm using the injectables, how often should I be injecting?

This is a frequent topic for discussion. The primary reason injectables get a bad rep most of time is doctors administering testosterone shots spaced too far apart in time. These ignorant practices result in a "roller-coaster" hormone effect, leaving the patient on top of the world initially and in the dumps towards the end. Ultimately here is the truth: testosterone injectables should be shot twice a week for peak stability, once a week at the longest. If your doctor tells you that anything other than this is proper practice - he's wrong. Just because your PCP is licensed to administer you TRT doesn't mean he is knowledgeable enough to be the one watching your health. But, this is only our firm *opinion* here at BB.com.


Ok, now I am a lil paranoid about getting sustanon injections 3 weeks apart and have read ALOT of conflicting information on this.

However, alot of people say you experience rollercoaster like "highs" and "lows" with sustanon injected at such an infrequent rate. (Less than once a week).

So I am wondering... What is your opinion? Is sustanon administered once every 3 weeks ok? Or would I be better off going with the androgel?

Thanks alot fellas.

Originally Posted by AndrewWard

I have been thinking about treatment options and am starting to get really confused.

I got this information off bb.com:

Q: What is the best form of testosterone administration: Gels/Creams or Injectables?

Hotly debated topic: a definitive answer is hard to give - most veterans side with injectables, however we will lay out the most common pros and cons of each:

GELS -

Pros: Better history at improving libido, more stable test levels due to everyday application, no needle injections, Good DHT conversion rate.

Cons: Overall test levels tend not to be as high as injectable (clearly important), danger of accidentally transferring drug to others real danger, absorption rate differs for everyone.

INJECTABLES -

Pros: Overall simpler process, generally produces higher Test Levels, zero contamination risk.

Cons: Injectables have to be injected (not as bad as people think).

Q: How long does TRT generally take to make you feel your best?

Three to six months generally: for at least the first three months your doctor (if you have a good one) will want to adjust dotages and call up blood labs to find your perfect spot. Three to six months can sound like a discouraging amount of time but take hope, after those six months 95% of patients usually report a 180 degree turnaround in health; it's worth the wait! However, to sweeten the deal - most patients report *improving* signs of health 3-5 weeks into treatment (improvement in mental acuity generally first).


Q: I'm using the injectables, how often should I be injecting?

This is a frequent topic for discussion. The primary reason injectables get a bad rep most of time is doctors administering testosterone shots spaced too far apart in time. These ignorant practices result in a "roller-coaster" hormone effect, leaving the patient on top of the world initially and in the dumps towards the end. Ultimately here is the truth: testosterone injectables should be shot twice a week for peak stability, once a week at the longest. If your doctor tells you that anything other than this is proper practice - he's wrong. Just because your PCP is licensed to administer you TRT doesn't mean he is knowledgeable enough to be the one watching your health. But, this is only our firm *opinion* here at BB.com.


Ok, now I am a lil paranoid about getting sustanon injections 3 weeks apart and have read ALOT of conflicting information on this.

However, alot of people say you experience rollercoaster like "highs" and "lows" with sustanon injected at such an infrequent rate. (Less than once a week).

So I am wondering... What is your opinion? Is sustanon administered once every 3 weeks ok? Or would I be better off going with the androgel?

Thanks alot fellas.

I have some problems with this.

If we are talking about HRT:

Injectibles will shut you down. Test cream will not, if used properly. Although being shut down is not necessarily an issue if you are on HRT for life, as I am. But I would still prefer to have some life in my testicles.
Cream will keep your levels way more stable than injections;
Cream allows you to dose very accurately;
The effects of cream are felt within a week;
Creams are cheaper, as a general rule;
Creams are painless;
Creams are bio-identical;
There is no real risk of transferring test cream to a second party. If applied correctly, there is virtually no residual to transfer, and if it's done as I do it, it's the last thing done at night and within hours it's absorbed into the skin.
The reference to higher test levels suggests that the motives go beyond HRT treatment. Either you are using it for HRT or not.

and my personal favourite: it is way easier to get a script for test cream than it is for injectibles.
The problem with articles like this is they're rarely written by people on HRT.

Fwiw: I would never use Androgel over a NHRT test cream.

It will be 2 weeks until my T gets retested, but I have hit levels to regain fairly close to my 14-22 year old erections.

At last test at 9.2 they were still rather wobbly, but now they appear just as I remember them. I have reapplied them differently though since then.

Anyone on testogel: try the forehead, jaw, scrotum combo if ur unhappy with the current effect.

So I'm hoping this is getting close to my pre-medical problem era.

Certainly a lot of the problems i have had in the past 3 years have decreased significantly - but the most career effecting ones remaining, although quality of life otherwise is getting close back to normal.

Good to hear Sim.

Sounds like a 120 degree turnaround. Only 60 degrees to go ey?

is it possible ur eating disorder got u into this? Fats from almonds and sardines dont u eat any burgers or are you dieting all year round.

T2 are creams definately certain not to shut you down?

Hi Simm,

I've watched this thread closely as I am interested in having my own testosterone levels tested - out of curiosity. After reading about responses certain doctors have to testing for this - to the point of refusing due to physical appearance, is quite off putting. I have heard of another person being refused as he had facial hair and was told "you wouldn't be able to grow that if you had low testosterone", and the GP blatently refused to do any tests. Without being frustrated my GP's in Melbourne I don't know, I think I might get my family GP to test me when I go back home next.

Now that you have started to notice results, what happens next? Like anything else, I assume your body will slowly begin to respond less. Then what? Increase dose? Switch to something that can be injected? Is this viable over the long term?

Originally Posted by Beeto

is it possible ur eating disorder got u into this? Fats from almonds and sardines dont u eat any burgers or are you dieting all year round.

T2 are creams definately certain not to shut you down?

Definately? I can't say with 100% certainty.

However, my doctor has told me that if the dosage is right, and the usage is right, then you shouldn't shut down completely.

But remember; we are talking HRT not cycling; so if you are put on HRT, then all things considered, you are likely to be on HRT forever.

Doctors responses vary. One of the first 2 doctors seemed to ignore my physical apperance wheras the other is obsessed with it to the point where he seem to reject my view that I had and erection disorder for the last past 3 years (interestingly, this didn't disappear until recently - my last testosterone test was with testogel [9.2] but it was only since applying it in different areas to increase absorption that ED issues have disappeared, which I guess shows that every person responds differently to testosterone numbers).

Obsession with appearnce is ridiculous. Put it this way, there are many female tennis, soccer players who don't do much weights with muscularity that exceeds many guys. And even with low T, I'm sure my T/E ratio was much better than their's (I hope so anyway). So even a low T guy can build some muscle, although obviously it limits them. I have seen like 10%+ increases in strength across the board in 3 weeks after platueing for about 6 months, so I know that my genetic threshold should now be higher.

As for increasing the dose, no u don't need to do that. All I'm doing is replacing most people's natural production.

The only thing is exogenous T can have a negative effect on some people's thyroid, which leads to thicker skin. Therefore transdermals may become less effective over time. I guess a second negative appears to be that it will encourage me to overtrain simply because ATM I feel so alive in the gym that I'd like to be there 2xdaily.

I have had no side effects exept for mild testicular shrinkage, which frankly, doesn't bother me at all.

I see a new doctor who's more alternative in 2 weeks - I'm hoping he can give me DHEA (I'm also subclinical on DHEA) and even get to the bottom of my hormonal problems. I increasingly feel its finasteride related - the ED issues seem to start after it.

Originally Posted by Gav

Hi Simm,

I've watched this thread closely as I am interested in having my own testosterone levels tested - out of curiosity. After reading about responses certain doctors have to testing for this - to the point of refusing due to physical appearance, is quite off putting. I have heard of another person being refused as he had facial hair and was told "you wouldn't be able to grow that if you had low testosterone", and the GP blatently refused to do any tests. Without being frustrated my GP's in Melbourne I don't know, I think I might get my family GP to test me when I go back home next.

Now that you have started to notice results, what happens next? Like anything else, I assume your body will slowly begin to respond less. Then what? Increase dose? Switch to something that can be injected? Is this viable over the long term?

Just a quick question, mate, and forgive me if it's been covered... if you're already on HRT with gel, after 3 doctors, why are you seeing a new one?

Originally Posted by Mark

Just a quick question, mate, and forgive me if it's been covered... if you're already on HRT with gel, after 3 doctors, why are you seeing a new one?

Ah that's a mistake - it should be about to see third doctor.

Reason - 1 doctor's response was to give gel without any investigation (which I excepted), another was to investigate but come up with reasons to say everything is OK. I would like an open minded doctor to investigate reasons for low T, and also to be prescribed DHEA. Neither doctor was willing to do that.

And if this third doctor agrees with either of the two previous doctors; will you take the majority vote, or will you continue to change doctors untill you land one that is willing to perscribe the items you want?

have you had estrogen levels tested yet?

Originally Posted by Mark

And if this third doctor agrees with either of the two previous doctors; will you take the majority vote, or will you continue to change doctors untill you land one that is willing to perscribe the items you want?

No I do not anticipate seeing another doctor. In fact I know I won't.

I know essentally the third doctor's views - one of the doctor's I have already seen knows the third doctor well and said he'd test for everything under the sun. I know he will give me DHEA unless there is a good reason not too. My first doctor doesn't prescribe DHEA regularly enough to want to do it. My second doctor is against prescribing DHEA in any case.

So not at all.

I should emphasise how profoundly conservative my second doctor is. He said
- insulin resistance doesn't exist;
- that there is no correlation between age and T, that something like 6-8 would be normal for my age, that in general exogenous T was a drug of abuse.
- i could go on forever but i have detailed them I think in MO's thread.
- wouldn't prescribe DHEA to anyone as is totally worthless.
- if we can't locate the source of your problem, you probably don't have one.

I know that the third doctor won't suggest a lower testogel usage (my last reading was 9.2 so unless its 30+ I'm not going to get this advice from anyone). And ATM to be honest, I'd prefer him to more exhaustively test why my T is low before giving me anymore to avoid total shutdown if I could have any reason to hope I could restart (the best solution would be just to avoid being on test IMO but that seems unlikely from what the first doctor said).

Anyway, I see him Monday week so there will be no change in anything I'm doing until then. I will update the thread.

MIKEJ: My estrogen was 55 (<200). 20-30 is considered ideal but to be honest I have no fluid retention of note, my chest fat is low, and I see no reason at this stage to be concerned with my E. I assume everyone responds different to different E and T numbers and I don't see myself responding badly to E=55 unless my new doctor prevents some compelling reason why I should address this.

Good stuff. Make no mistake I don't question the Doc you're describing is a fool. I also know what it feels like to want to treat an area but come up against resistance with doctors.

all the best!