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Thread: Training styles for women. Different or not? Discuss :)

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by RazZ View Post
    Body Sculpt - to change via surgery or training, specific contours of a body shape inorder to create a more pleasing overall figure based on the desired outcome.
    -------------------------------------------------

    Fair enough TonyH.. ..feel free to train your female friends purely for mass.. definately dont sculpt her shape by deliberately training for a female figure aesthetic. I'm sure MASS FREAK looks awesome in a bikini.

    Ps.. you might wanna have a chat to Dexter J sometime, not everyon chases pure unchecked mass.
    none of my female friends take growth hormones, so it won't be an issue. Maybe you know of alot of women who have tragically developed huge man like physiques by doing deadlifts. I certainly don't. Does anyone know of any woman has met this sad fate???

  2. #17
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    Body building versus body sculpting?

    If I tell my non-exercising friends that I "body build", their first response is "YUCK!". Instead, I tell them I "body sculpt" and they tend to be a lot more accepting.

    But in the exercising world, I think "bodysculpting" seems to be inferior, like I am not taken seriously in the gym, so I use the word body building. Funny hey?

    What exactly am I trying to do? Well, I am trying to build muscle, just don't know what to call it!!

  3. #18
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    I couldn't bring myself to say bodysculpting. Im not anyway.

    I say i lift weights or that Im into bodybuilding (as opposed to 'i bodybuild'). But then i feel i have to qualify that as its not like you would look at me and thing 'shes been lifting weights'.

  4. #19
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    This is worth a read (I couldnt copy the tables or diagrams, you can get the full article at chekconnect.com):

    Training Jane, Not Tarzan
    Paul Chek


    Did Jane of the jungle have to worry about losing fat, increasing muscle tone, or having the aesthetics to catch Tarzan’s eye? Not likely! Jane of the Jungle was an active woman. Upon rising each morning, Tarzan and Jane would make their way through the jungle, swinging vine to vine and hopping rocks to cross streams on the way to the mango grove for breakfast. After breakfast, it was time to hike over the mountain to visit the local tribesman. Although it was a long hike, Jane would eat figs and berries along the way. While Tarzan discussed how to stop elephant poachers, Jane assisted the tribes’ women in harvesting roots and gathering firewood. After lunch they swam down the river to the local watering hole for a ride on the hippos. With the help of the zebras, they rode across the plains to check on the lion cubs. To finish the day Tarzan and Jane returned home by vine and trail for a sunset dinner.

    Today’s Jane is bombarded with quick fix advertisements. Everything from fad diets, to lyposuction, and plastic surgery. Those with a little more determination make valid attempts to stay healthy and slim with aerobics classes and machine-based exercise programs. Evidence of poor conditioning and a lack of understanding of the importance of conditioning females among coaches and trainers can be found in the statistics: Females suffer more orthopedic injury than males in almost every sport in which both sexes compete (1). A chronic lack of strength in the lower abdominals & pelvic floor muscles is evident in the 47.5% of females at an average age of only 38.5 years who suffer from incontinence (2). Both these problems can often be helped with the correct exercise program.

    CAN WEIGHT LIFTING HELP INCONTINENCE?

    Interestingly enough, Nygaard et al (2) found that only 4% of women who lifted weights suffered incontinence, compared with 38% of runners (See Table 1). Clinically, I have found the frequency of incontinence to be much higher among females using machine weights and attending aerobics classes than among those who utilize predominantly free weights. Fortunately there is a very high success rate treating incontinence due to pelvic floor weakness with exercises targeting the transverse abdominus and lower abdominals (those below the umbilicus).

    WHAT ARE LOWER ABDOMINALS?

    The abdominal muscles below the umbilicus all share the same source of innervation and are conditioned using specific exercises requiring high levels of fine motor control. Lower abdominals may act as prime movers, but serve primarily as stabilizer muscles. Weak lower abdominal muscles are commonly found in those with low back pain.

    Incontinence reported by 47% @ avg. age 38.5 (Nygaard et.al.)

    The reason exercising the transversus abdominis assists in reduction of incontinence is because the transversus abdominis, multifidus (back stabilizer muscles) and pelvic floor are on the same neurological reflex loop (3). To better understand this concept, think of the muscles as lights, all controlled by one switch. Try the following exercise: place a couple of fingers between your legs, just in front of your rectum. Now draw your belly button toward your spine as though you were sucking your tummy in to get on a pair of tight pants. You should fell your pelvic floor tighten up! There you have it; your nervous system recruits your pelvic floor in concert with your transversus abdominis (TVA).

    The TVA is an essential stabilizer muscle, creating intra-abdominal pressure to protect the low back when lifting or carrying heavy loads. Incontinence results when intra-abdominal pressure is created without concurrent activation of the pelvic floor, or when there is insufficient strength and poor activation of the pelvic floor.

    Through testing, I have found that virtually every female who trains regularly with a weight belt has less strength and control of their transversus abdominis muscles than those who strengthen their own internal weight belt! Additionally, weak and poorly controlled TVA muscles lead to the pooch belly that females dearly hate! In my seminars, I tell therapists and trainers, “if your client looks like they need a girdle, build them one, don’t let them buy one!” Although there are several exercises that condition the TVA, their complexity is beyond the scope of this article. (I refer the interested reader to the following videos: Gym Instructor Series Vol. 1 - Core Conditioning, Part 1 – Abdominal Training & Part 2 – Back & Ball Training).

    JANE WASN’T BIG FROM FREE WEIGHT TRAINING AND YOU WON’T BE EITHER!

    That’s right, climbing and swinging from vines, hopping rocks, and gathering firewood are all free weight exercises. Just because there are no handles on the vines or logs does not mean that you couldn’t get strong pulling and lifting on such objects.

    Most females exercise on machines, avoiding free weights for fear of GETTING BIG! Here are several reasons why this is more myth than reality:

    Females have about ten times less testosterone and far greater levels of estrogen in their blood stream than males at all times (6).
    Studies on hypertrophy using muscle-building protocols also show that females do not achieve the same hypertrophic responses in fast twitch fibers that males do (3, 4).

    A soon as the body is stabilized during any resistance exercise (i.e. sitting or lying on a machine), activation of the centrally generated recruitment patterns needed to activate postural and stabilizer muscles is reduced to virtually nothing (5). This is not good if you want to burn fat because this means that machine exercises activate far less muscle than free weight or unstable exercises, which means you burn less fat for time spent training on machines!

    This is why it is important include free weight exercises in a female’s training program and to learn how to use the TVA correctly (see Gym Instructor Series Volume 2 – Pushing & Pressing Exercises & Volume 3 – Rows, Pulls, Chins and the Dead Lift). This does not mean that females should not use machines, it simply means that their program should contain a significant (=/> 50%) percentage of free weight exercises. Females should also perform their free weight training prior to machine training exercises, allowing more neural energy for activation of postural and stabilizer muscles (see next month’s article for a discussion on this topic).

    IS SHE REALLY GETTING BIG?

    Competitive female body builders train approximately three hours a day, performing 5-12 sets per exercise. Any competitive female body builder will tell you, getting big is no easy task for a female. It requires a significant time commitment and serious commitment to nutritional modifications and supplementation. Any woman can enhance her beauty and function with as little as 45 minutes three times per week in the gym!

    PROVE IT TO YOUR CLIENTS!

    Take circumference measurements at the mid-point of the upper arms, chest, waist, and mid-thighs. Every four weeks, re-measure. If you (or your client) is truly putting on more muscle than wanted, the following changes can prevent adding unwanted muscle while maintaining physique:

    Reduce the number of sets and/or exercises targeting the area of concern
    If using a station training approach (not circuit training), increase the rest time between sets to between 2:30 and 3:30
    Lower the intensity of the exercise to the point that 20 repetitions can be performed each set and only perform 12-15 reps with that load
    Perform aerobic exercise after resistance training to encourage aerobic adaptation, which will retard anaerobic adaptation, reducing the chances of putting on muscle mass
    Perform the exercises targeting the muscle(s) of concern no more than one time each six days
    AEROBICS, FREEWEIGHTS, OR BOTH?

    It is common practice for females to come straight out of an aerobic class and lift weights. It is unsafe to lift weights in a state of fatigue unless you are an advanced lifter with at least three years supervision by a trained conditioning coach. Innately, many females find they have a hard time with free-weights after such classes, and therefore choose machine training. If this pattern persists, the female loses all the benefits of free weight training that support female physiology, including fat loss (see below)!

    IF YOU WANT TO DO BOTH ….

    Keep aerobics classes (particularly those with complex dance moves) separate from free-weight training and machine training.
    If you or your client’s schedule demands both on the same day, perform two free weight lifts, two machine exercises and / or exercises targeting one region of the abdominals, followed by an aerobic activity. To prevent injury, the aerobic activity performed after resistance training should be low in complexity, for example rowing, cycling, steppers and step mills, or elliptical trainers.

    Due to stabilizer fatigue and potential joint instability, any form of running should be avoided after performing leg exercises such as lunges, squats, box step-ups or dead lifts.

    MUSCLE BURNS CALORIES!

    Even though females may go to the gym at the same time as their significant other they often exercise very differently. Most females gravitate toward the machines, be it aerobic or resistance training machines. When they do perform weight training, they often use very low intensities, socialize between sets, and seldom build any muscle because of this.

    While using cardio machines does help burn calories, the body also becomes progressively more efficient at cardio exercise. The result is more miles to the gallon when the aim is actually to become less fuel-efficient with fewer miles to the gallon. Aerobic exercise has also been shown to be associated with increased levels of glucocorticoids, which are catabolic in nature (7) and so do not favor increasing muscle mass; the very muscle needed to burn fat!

    This is why resistance training performed with acute exercise variables suitable for bodybuilding is good for females. Body building exercises performed at 8-12 rep intensity, slow tempos, and short rest periods (1 minute or less) stimulate muscle growth and protein synthesis (7). Hormones that step-up metabolism such as testosterone and growth hormone, are known to be more prevalent in the blood stream after exposure to body building protocols (4). This results in increased caloric consumption, often for some time after resistance training is completed. In fact, fit people always metabolize more fat, and can metabolize fat at higher intensities than the unfit person (7).

    Interestingly, Australian researcher Robby Parker showed that after performing resistance training, obese pre-menopausal women used 50% more fat, even though total metabolic rate did not change. He also noted that resistance training appears better for reducing abdominal fat than aerobic exercise (8).

    DID JANE EXERCISE WITH TARZAN, EVERY DAY?

    Jane never entertained dieting, attempted quick fix weight loss programs, or canned exercise classes designed to suit the masses with minimal supervision; she exercised with Tarzan every day! If we analyze Jane of the Jungle’s daily exercise regimen, we will find many useful clues as to how she remained so healthy and functional. (Table 2).

    This does not mean that to look as good as Jane of the jungle you must swing on your clothesline, hop desk to desk at the office, or request that your fitness center put hippos in the swimming pool. By the way, I don’t recommend swimming down jungle rivers unless you can out swim the long tooth – shorthaired – long nosed – short legged – long tailed water spaniels (sometimes referred to as alligators)! Jane of the Gym can achieve the same results as Jane of the Jungle by either combining or alternating aerobic exercise with resistance training exercise (Tables 3 & 4).

    Note: The same exercise sequencing as above may be used with aerobics being performed on the days indicated.

    CONCLUSION

    There are many other issues that need to be addressed in order to achieve optimal health, and functionality for females, such as bone health and excessive flexibility. Another huge topic is that of proper nutrition for females – an area that could consume this site for the next year or more!

    However, the fact remains that although Tarzan and Jane are very different, they are very compatible in the gym. In fact, most females would be better off if they were encouraged to train like men instead of being led to believe that they will get big if they do so. Getting big is not easy even for men with their favorable anabolic hormonal profile! If a woman can lose 5-10 pounds of fat in trade for a few pounds of muscle, she will look better, feel better, and burn more fat, even when she sleeps.

    REFERENCES

    James E. Zachazewski et. al. Athletic Injuries and Rehabilitation (pg. 841. 843)
    W.B. Saunders Co. 1996
    Nygaard I. et. al. Exercise and Incontinence Obstetrics and Gynecology 75:848-851, 1990
    Diane Lee Treatment of Pelvic Instability (445-459) Movement, Stability & Low Back Pain The essential role of the pelvis Ed. Andry Vleeming et.al. Churchill Livingstone 1997
    Allen Hedrick Training for Hypertrophy NSCA Journal Vol. 17, No. 3, June 1995
    Richard Schmidt Motor Learning and Performance Human Kinetics
    Paul Chek Equal, But Not The Same (Correspondence Course) C.H.E.K Institute, 1998
    Paul Chek Program Design: Choosing Reps, Sets, Loads, Tempo, and Rest Periods (Correspondence Course) C.H.E.K Institute, 1995
    Bobbie Parker Resistance Training and Fat Loss in Pre-Menopausal Women FILEX Convention, Sydney Australia July, 1998
    Another good reference:

    Judy Daly and Wendy Ey Hormones and Female Athletic Performance Australian Sports Commission, 1996

  5. #20
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    Great article Belmont!
    "I can't remember if I'm the good twin or the evil one..."

  6. #21
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    Yeah good article. I'd just say I train with weights. If you compete say ur a body builder. If ur friends with the muffin top stomach says yuck, just glance slowly at their stomach/tuck shop arms etc and reply "yeah...yuck"

    the words tone and sculpt grate with me as you hear them used repeatedly in infomercials for the latest greatest "ab king pros" "cardio twisters" and "Zumba" the fun way to dance with sticks while toning and sculpting those arms buns n thighs!!! Arghhh

    Maybe the problem is with me bu I've never heard anyone refer to squats, deadlifts, presses, rows and chinups as "sculpting" excercises. if women want to improve their physique, these excercises should be there first port of call

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belmont View Post
    Females have about ten times less testosterone and far greater levels of estrogen in their blood stream than males at all times (6).
    Studies on hypertrophy using muscle-building protocols also show that females do not achieve the same hypertrophic responses in fast twitch fibers that males do (3, 4).
    Good article.

    But the pedant here has to point out that even academics get it wrong. You can't have ten times less of anything. That is, you can't use a multiplier to express a reduction.

    Eg. If a woman has a testosterone level of 4 (arbitary number) and a man 40 (also arbitary) then her level is one tenth that of his, not ten times less.

    Pedantic I know, sorry.


  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyharrison View Post
    Yeah good article. I'd just say I train with weights. If you compete say ur a body builder. If ur friends with the muffin top stomach says yuck, just glance slowly at their stomach/tuck shop arms etc and reply "yeah...yuck"

    the words tone and sculpt grate with me as you hear them used repeatedly in infomercials for the latest greatest "ab king pros" "cardio twisters" and "Zumba" the fun way to dance with sticks while toning and sculpting those arms buns n thighs!!! Arghhh

    Maybe the problem is with me bu I've never heard anyone refer to squats, deadlifts, presses, rows and chinups as "sculpting" excercises. if women want to improve their physique, these excercises should be there first port of call
    I had this discussion yesterday with one of the young female uni students. Shes a dancer and is quite fit. Actually, heaps fit. but she was worried about the whole bulking up thing. im like SIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGH. Then one of the young fellows joined in saying he was gonna take dbols. So we had THAT discussion about training and food etc and expectations. I think everyone needs a mandatory week on SM.

    I don't look like i lift weights either lol so Id never laugh at anyone. Not compared to our women here anyway. I guess its all relative.

  9. #24
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    Great article Belmont, I think the concensus is changing with women over time in the gym, particularly trainers, who now realise the time efficiency of using compound movements.

    That is probably the best way to make these "male" exercises appeal to women, I recall explaining to my Mum that while 4 sets of deadlifts, although feeling very hard are probably equal to 4 sets of bi cep curls + 4 sets of seated rows + 4 sets of lat pull downs in terms of overall training effect.

    That fact that she could complete her workouts in shorted time periods when using compound movements helped seal the deal.

  10. #25
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    Oh meant to say.

    I noticed quite a while ago that my pelvic floor had improved considerably since Id started doing deadlifts.

  11. #26
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    Ok, the plan was to write an article to show you that a woman should NOT train like a man if she is to avoid joint injuries. That was then.

    Now I’ve decided to leave the forum, or at least not write any more articles in it.

    My view regarding this issue seems to be different than what I’ve read here so far on the subject. So my answer to the question posed by Rusha on: Training styles for women. Different or not? ; is yes the style or rather the whole cycle of training should be tailored to suite a woman’s cycle. Just to clarify quickly; the first cycle I mentioned was the woman’s training cycle; whilst the other was her monthly cycle.

    If I was to write a macro-cycle (4 weeks) for a woman, I would have to seriously take into consideration her monthly cycle based on the peptide hormone relaxin. Failing to take that into consideration could see that female athlete suffer some joint injuries due to some joint laxity which is likely to occur during the ovulatory phase of her monthly cycle (which is during days 10-14). http://wpcontent.answers.com/wikiped...rualCycle2.png

    We all, (men and women) are equal, but we’re most certainly NOT the same and therefore our training ought to be tailored accordingly.

    I’ll leave it here and I thank you for your time.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16949187?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez. Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.P ubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=2&log$=relatedarticles& logdbfrom=pubmed

    Association Between the Menstrual Cycle and Anterior Cruciate Ligament Injuries in Female Athletes ? Am J Sports Med


    Fadi.

  12. #27
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    Fadi, I did mention that women are more likely to sustain ACL injuries however i didn't post any information.
    I have read (skimmed) the article you linked and yes it states that women sustain more acl injuries during their menstrual cycle. However, the article states that basketball, skiing and soccer are the three main sports with a high incidence of acl injury. The rest are listed as softball, work/leisure, volleyball, tennis, karate.

    It also states that 'there are more injuries during the ovulatory phase regular cycles (days 10 to 14). In contrast, significantly fewer injuries occurred during the follicular phase (days 1 to 9).'

    To me it looks like there are four days of higher risk?

    Im not disagreeing with you (certainly not when ive only linked information from one article) but just saying what i understand from the article linked.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusha View Post
    Fadi, I did mention that women are more likely to sustain ACL injuries however i didn't post any information.
    I have read (skimmed) the article you linked and yes it states that women sustain more acl injuries during their menstrual cycle. However, the article states that basketball, skiing and soccer are the three main sports with a high incidence of acl injury. The rest are listed as softball, work/leisure, volleyball, tennis, karate.

    It also states that 'there are more injuries during the ovulatory phase regular cycles (days 10 to 14). In contrast, significantly fewer injuries occurred during the follicular phase (days 1 to 9).'

    To me it looks like there are four days of higher risk?

    Im not disagreeing with you (certainly not when ive only linked information from one article) but just saying what i understand from the article linked.
    Rusha, there's no problem if you disagree with me; I mean it.

    The sport you or the studies have listed pale into insignificance compared to the pressure a women joints are placed under when heavy lifting; relatively speaking. Just the fact that there’s joint laxity due to a shift in hormone is enough for me to sit up and take note. Those sensitive/delicate days of the ovulatory phase could ruin a whole career if say the male partner is pushing hard and his lady decides to join in...Possible disaster.

    Prevention is always better than cure I say.


    Fadi.

  14. #29
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    Truly, ive been ovulating for mega tons of years now and there is nothing sensitive or delicate about it :). Generally there are no obvious changes to the body and women see it as just another 'day'.

    Yes estrogen, relaxin (very high during pregnancy) etc levels are higher over the couple of days when they peak but that small period of time coupled with the fact that most ACL injuries are from turning and jumping means I personally don't see a reason to adjust my workout or that of other women.

    I do agree however, caution at all times for men and for women is prudent.

    sorry if some doesnt make sense. I havent had any sleep and its starting to get messy.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by take2 View Post
    Good article.

    But the pedant here has to point out that even academics get it wrong. You can't have ten times less of anything. That is, you can't use a multiplier to express a reduction.

    Eg. If a woman has a testosterone level of 4 (arbitary number) and a man 40 (also arbitary) then her level is one tenth that of his, not ten times less.

    Pedantic I know, sorry.

    So you cant say.. he's 10 times uglier?

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