Thread: mega dosing fish oil

Anyone tried mega dosing fish oil?

I'm sure Charles Poliquin's claims for the extreme anabolic effects of 45g of fish fat per day are exaggerrated, but wondering if anyone has tried a similar protocol.

I suffer from quite severe muscle inflammation - DOMS in lats 24/7 especially, but also almost 24/7 in legs and frequently in other body parts too etc (this is presumably attributable to medical issues I have detailed in other threads - it's not something I experienced prior to medical issues). The only bodypart that is spared are my arms - but they look like twigs, and I'm assuming this reflects insufficient muscle activation/stimulation than anything else.

Anyway, for the last week and a 1/2, I have decided to mega dose fish oil. I'm consuming about 45-60g per day. About 25g from bottled fish oil (with added vit E to prevent oxidation) and about 20-40g from salmon per day.

So far, I have only positive things to report.

(1) Inflammation is significantly better - DOMS is lower, even though I'm training more
(2) recovery time is quicker
(3) sleep better (less nocturnal polyuria, which will be an amazing consequence if it continues although I'm sceptical)

Too early to detect compositional changes.

I should point out that i always had a decent omega 3 intake prior to this - about 20g of fish fat per day (unless John West Pink Salmon lies lol which is a possibility)

Anyway, will report how this experiment continues to go. I intend to continue it regardless of compositional changes if inflammation remains improved

My advice to you is to stop taking fish oil altogether. Take DHA instead. EPA is not what it's cracked out to be and may be more harmful than you think. I'll be writing a comprehensive article on inflammation and the natural way to deal with the COX and LOX inhibitors amongst other triggering inflammatory enzymes; soon to come. I'll give you something to read in the meantime.

DHA FOR HEARTS AND MINDS


I'd like to keep my DHA to EPA ratio at around 5-7:1.

I'm holding a can of tuna in my hand and it has the following per 100gm:
EPA=20mg
DHA=120mg


Fadi.

Fadi he gets his fish oil from real food, lots of salmon.

I thought I posted this earlier but I am not sure what happened to it. There has been a few studies that shown (I will cite later) that mega dosing of fish oil i.e above 1g a day has shown to have negative effects on the immune system amongst other things.

I also thought that EPA was meant to help in the reduction of inflammation and also played just as a important role as DHA in brain function.

But if what you are saying is true and DHA is the real important omega 3 that puts another nail in the coffin for those who use flax oil given the relatively poor conversion rate to DHA.

Originally Posted by adz82

Fadi he gets his fish oil from real food, lots of salmon.

I thought I posted this earlier but I am not sure what happened to it. There has been a few studies that shown (I will cite later) that mega dosing of fish oil i.e above 1g a day has shown to have negative effects on the immune system amongst other things.

I also thought that EPA was meant to help in the reduction of inflammation and also played just as a important role as DHA in brain function.

But if what you are saying is true and DHA is the real important omega 3 that puts another nail in the coffin for those who use flax oil given the relatively poor conversion rate to DHA.

Sorry Adz82, this was what I read from the OP:

About 25g from bottled fish oil (with added vit E to prevent oxidation) and about 20-40g from salmon per day.

I wouldn't touch flaxseed oil. Soy and milk is another controversial topic. I'll reserve my comments on these for the time being.


Fadi.

Anyone seen Krill Oil which stores are starting to sell now?

Claims to have Omega-3 levels 48x more potent than fish oil...

Originally Posted by GymDiet

Anyone seen Krill Oil which stores are starting to sell now?

Claims to have Omega-3 levels 48x more potent than fish oil...

fish oil is 30% omega 3.

Not sure how the claims of krill oil can be correct

Well it's instantly lost its credibiity then hasn't it.... :P

It's not just about omega 3; and it's not about Krill oil, fish oil, and/or Green Lipped Mussel Extract (Lyprinol). Most everyone's aim is to get you to part with your hard earnt cash. Now you can fall for the hype or you may choose to dig below the surface to get to the bottom of it all.

It's all about the active ingredient. I'm saying it's DHA at the bottom of it all. Do your own digging and let me know if you find something contrary to what I've found. I'd be very interested to know. Thank you.

PS: I'm restricting myslelf to the omega 3 oils here and not other herbal anti-inflammatories.


Fadi.

Fadi, perhaps you can recommend alternative anti inflammatory supplements to fish oil?

I just purchased this:

Jarrow Formulas, Max DHA, 607 mg, 180 Softgels - iHerb.com

Fish Oil (source of Omega-3)
DHA (Docosahexaenoic Acid) 250 mg
EPA (Eicosapentaenoic Acid) 36 mg
Other Omega-3 72 mg

It might be a better option do you think?

3 weeks of megadosing fish oil, and all I can say is recovery is at an all time high since the onset of my medical issues (22/3)

I'm probably averaging about 40g of fish oil, in a total fat intake of about 120g.

So there is still plenty of other fats. The remainder are eggs, olive oil, beef, cheese, avocado. I'm debating adding GLA.

I know there is no science behind this, but I don't trust nuts. I seem to gain abnominal fat by adding nuts despite consuming the same number of calories.

Originally Posted by odrd

Fadi, perhaps you can recommend alternative anti inflammatory supplements to fish oil?

I accept your request and will provide you with a comprehensive answer soon. However since I don't like hijacking threads and would not want to do the same to Sim882, I've decided to start a new thread in the coming few weeks on the subject. When I say comprehensive, I mean comprehensive with studies as well as experience to back my words so there will be neither time nor money wasted!

Stay tuned.


Fadi.

Originally Posted by Fadi

I accept your request and will provide you with a comprehensive answer soon. However since I don't like hijacking threads and would not want to do the same to Sim882, I've decided to start a new thread in the coming few weeks on the subject. When I say comprehensive, I mean comprehensive with studies as well as experience to back my words so there will be neither time nor money wasted!

Stay tuned.


Fadi.

Feel free to hijack the thread but start a new one if you preferred.

I recognise you say DHA is the important EFA, but does this mean EPA is detrimental? If EPA is merely benign then fish oil is still a decent source of cals/DHA?

Originally Posted by Sim882

Feel free to hijack the thread but start a new one if you preferred.

I recognise you say DHA is the important EFA, but does this mean EPA is detrimental? If EPA is merely benign then fish oil is still a decent source of cals/DHA?

Sim882,

Had I thought of EPA as being a benign fatty acid, then it would have been very silly of me to bring it up and make an issue of it in this thread. As I have already stated, I prefer a ratio of 5-7: 1 of DHA to EPA. And I gave the example of the can of tuna I was holding in my hand of having a 120mg to 20mg in favour of DHA over EPA; that’s a ratio of 6:1.

Now I did not just throw my words and run; but I supplied the good people here with some information to back my words in a form of a link (which has references at the end of it).

Here’s part of what it says:

Not all of the immune-suppressing effects of fish oil are due to oxidation, however. Incorporation of certain fatty acids into cell membranes affects second-messenger systems (molecular signaling systems within cells) that can modify gene expression. An experiment that studied the individual effects of EPA and DHA found that EPA reduced natural killer (NK) cell activity and cell-mediated immune response, but that DHA does not. This study concluded that the immune-suppressing effects of fish oil are mainly due to EPA, not DHA [*40].

Although fish oil has been widely used and widely recommended for its benefits for heart and circulation, DHA is responsible for most of those benefits. Because excessive fish oil can be harmful, it makes sense to maximize the benefits and minimize the hazards by taking DHA rather than fish oil. DHA provides protection against cardiovascular disease, while greatly reducing the hazards of immune-suppression due to EPA.

Sim882, I noticed that you were aware of the oxidation of the omega 3 oil and were taking precautions by supplementing with some anti-oxidants. Bravo for doing that. However knowing what I know, I realised that your action won’t be enough and won’t save you from the detrimental effect EPA can have on your immune system due to EPA’s immune-suppressing effect through a different pathway that has nothing to do with oxidation.

In a nutshell, fish oil is old news; hello DHA!

PS: DHA can convert into EPA if needed. Others say that EPA can convert into DHA also, but others disagree on that. That’s a debate in itself that we won’t get into here.


Fadi.

Thanks for that Fadi.

Just in regards to krill oil, do you believe it has a place in conjunction with a stand alone DHA supplement? I understand your take regarding DHA but I wonder whether you think that the ORAC value and the astaxanthin which promote antioxidant metabolism are worth the spending since, excluding its own benefits, it will largely help the absorption of the DHA supplement as well as contribute very little in the way of EPA.


Cheers.